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Wisconsin Engines Single cylinder up to V4 engines.

Wisconsin Engines

Wisconsin AE


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  #1  
Old 07-15-2019, 10:24:42 PM
turmlos turmlos is offline
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Default Wisconsin AE

Hello all,

I thought I share some pictures of an old Wisconsin AE that I picked up last week. I'm hoping to get her up and running for display purposes at least. I think she's too far gone to be put back to work.

She has a fairly low serial number. Unfortunately I can't date it since Wisconsin's site appears to be no more.
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This is an old Whiskey with an air vane governor, or at least most of one. The air vane lever was broken and wasn't connected to anything. She came to me with a Briggs medium two-piece Flo-jet carburetor mounted (not pictured).
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:33:26 PM
turmlos turmlos is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Unfortunately she was dropped some point in the past. Here are some views of the carnage.
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The base also took some damage. I'm glad I removed it as I found the lower check ball missing from the oil pump.
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:43:07 PM
turmlos turmlos is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Oiled the Wico C-Series magneto, cleaned the points and was rewarded with some nice spark. Luckily for me the original plastic condenser had been replaced. The cover & clip are long gone and I'm guessing unobtainium.
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The bore's not the prettiest but I've had worse. I'm more worried about the chipped exhaust seat insert area and the cracked head bolt hole.
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  #4  
Old 07-15-2019, 10:54:29 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

The shroud is in decent shape, especially compared to some others that I've seen here. I think the only thing missing is the air vane cage. Also note the additional tag.
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The fuel tank is quite dented to say the least but I don't think it will leak. I'm loving the Tillotson filter bowl.
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Last but not least the head. I think it weighs more than a Predator! It's got a few broken fins but nothing major.
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That's all I have for now. If anyone knows where I might be able to find a Stromberg UR-3/4 carburetor please let me know!
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  #5  
Old 07-15-2019, 11:09:40 PM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Your Wisconsin AE engine is indeed quite early, it was built in March of 1936. I question whether or not the engine was dropped. If it were dropped the crankshaft would be bent. If you mount a magnetic base dial indicator holder on the block you would know for sure as soon as you turn the crankshaft. I suspect that your engine was laying on its side, filled with water, froze and blew apart. Someone did one hell of a reconstruction on that crankcase. How does the camshaft look, is it broken in any way? I would not worry too much about the exhaust valve seat being partially exposed, it will fill in with carbon sooner or later. Just make sure the seats are good. The valves look like they may have been cut down from a larger engine, I have not seen such a rough grinding on the outside valve margin before. The cracked head bolt hole may be a problem. You may be able to use one of the key locking thread inserts that mcmaster-carr sells. If you align the pins with the good parent material, it should support the bolt properly with minimal push out from tightening. One thing you should really check is the bore of the flywheel, I have seen several people use impact guns to un-seize these engines with detrimental effects. An impact will push the flywheel in too far on the taper and split the flywheel down the broached keyway. I hope you can get that engine back together and running. I kind of like how busted up it looks. If you can get it to run again it will be a testament of how tough these engines are and how even questionable farm fixes can keep things moving. I have a service manual for the model AE, I can check part numbers for you against later AEH engines if you like.

Chris
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  #6  
Old 07-16-2019, 09:07:04 PM
turmlos turmlos is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Chris,

Thank you for the manufacturing date. May I ask where you got that information? You're likely correct regarding the frozen block. I just assumed it was dropped due to the split crankcase and the broken base. The crankshaft checks out. I did find quite a bit of side play in the flywheel end bearing though (.010-.012).

The camshaft gear teeth are in good shape, but I found a major problem with the oil pump lobe. The pictures should explain it better than I can. Are these early models supposed to have a cap on the oil pump push rod? I'm guessing yes. Mine is missing along with the aforementioned lower check ball.
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The extra play in the system really battered the oil pump plunger pin.
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I also noticed the main bearing plate wasn't installed properly. Someone did a good job welding it up but reassembly is a different matter.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:20:17 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

I checked the taper and keyway on the flywheel along with the rest of it. No issues found.
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A buddy of mine stopped by and gave me this old fuel tank. It's in much better shape.
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Thanks for the information on the valvetrain. I'll look into those key locking thread inserts that you mentioned.
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  #8  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:48:47 AM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Believe it or not, your oil pump assembly is factory! It was not until December of 1936 that Wisconsin added the KF-19-A Oil pump push rod cap, that you will see on every other later single cylinder air cooled Wisconsin engine. Give Tim Stine a call at Rock Creek consulting and order up a new KF-19-A push rod cap, a new KF-14 Oil Pump Plunger and a KF-17-1 new style plunger push rod. The ball bearing is a ME-58 (5/16" steel ball). At this point your cam is likely "toast" however I would bet that if you could get a needle file into the block and knock off any of the burrs on the oil pump eccentric, it will run and pump just fine with the new oil pump push rod cap installed. There is really no sense in buying a replacement cam for an engine in this condition. I do not think that the PTO side bearing cap orientation matters at all. You should definitely check crankshaft endplay (in and out) if you have 0.010-0.012" side to side movement on the flywheel side bearing. This engine uses Timken tapered roller bearings like the later Wisconsins do, however your engine being an early AE uses a different bearing and race than the later AE engines. Your AE uses a Timken 26274 and 26131 flywheel side bearing. My AE manual specifies 0.006" endplay in the crankshaft for your engine. You may have to remove a few paper or metal shims to get this value correct. In case you did not know, the AE is rated 3.0hp @ 1400rpm, 3.7hp @ 1800rpm and 4.2hp @ 2400rpm. 2400rpm is the maximum governed speed of this engine. I am glad that your flywheel is in good shape, that is a huge sign of relief since they are very hard to find. You will find that the early Wisconsin fuel tanks are near identical to what Briggs & Stratton used in the 1940s on their larger engines like the ZZ. You should clean out the tank that came with your engine and seal it up with some of the gas tank sealant that Lee Pedersen advertises on here. That beat up tank just gives your engine a bit more character.

Chris
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  #9  
Old 07-17-2019, 07:31:16 PM
turmlos turmlos is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Thanks again for the great information. Are any of your engines this early and if so do they have similar wear? I also happened to notice that the later model oil pump body & splash trough had a cover. This early one lacks the hole for the cotter pin. I'll be sure to check the end play later. I'll likely end up removing the bearing end caps regardless so I'll probably be disassembling the entire engine. That way I can really make sure any burrs on the camshaft eccentric are removed. I did a bit of price checking on bearing cup & cone and needless to say the originals will be staying in! I'll stick with the tank it came with as well, however I don't think it's the original. I don't know what product Lee Pedersen advertises but it sounds an awful lot like Red Kote which I happen to have.
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  #10  
Old 07-20-2019, 08:33:49 PM
Zira Zira is online now
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Just FYI you can usually find those Wico C covers, most of the magneto repair guys have them. Not unobtainium, but a Gold MasterCard helps.
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:50:38 AM
turmlos turmlos is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Thanks for the tip. Don't know any magneto guys but I will keep it in mind.
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2019, 09:51:05 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

I haven't really touched this engine since July, it'll likely be a winter project. However I did pick up a much nicer AE last week. She's complete apart from an air cleaner. This one has a Stromberg UR-3/4 carburetor and a Wico Model A magneto. Strangely the Model A isn't referenced in any of the parts lists that I've found.

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Old 10-21-2019, 09:57:36 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

The air vane is all there and functional. The guard is even in good shape.

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Old 10-21-2019, 10:03:15 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

I have another AE lined up for the spring. A little off topic, but I also picked up a Thermo-King AENLD from the same guy. She was left outside with no spark plug so she'll need a rebore.

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Old 10-21-2019, 10:56:09 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

That AE is in magnificent shape for its age! Other than the much later aluminum wrap-a-rope sheave, it is a true time capsule. The model AE was available with five different magnetos, four of which were Wico magnetos. The Wico model A-1 was a factory magneto for this engine. Your newer AE was built in February of 1939.

Are you sure that your AENLD is from a Thermoking? I have a Thermoking AENLD and it does not have a Wisconsin tag, it has a Thermoking tag. It also has a special deep cast iron oil pan with a special oil pump, and a big centrifugal clutch on the crankshaft. Mine has a magneto on it, but I have seen them with distributors. If your engine was on a Thermo-king, it has probably already been bored or sleeved. These engines saw a lot of use. A friend recalls rebuilding the same Thermo-king eight or nine times. It wore out three sets of cylinder sleeves in its time.

Chris
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:57:32 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Chris,

Thanks for the magneto information and build date. My late manual (don't have any early ones) lists five mags (1 Fairbanks-Morse, 2 Wico, 2 Edison) but the A is not amongst them.

I'm certain it's a Thermo-King. Here's a video of a similar one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKWBOAB6p24

It does have a Thermo-King tag. I'm guessing it's a late model; Serial 3879968 Spec 250342. Is that not the deep pan on there? Maybe it's a different style of high capacity pan? I'll have to pop it off and see what it looks like. I thought most had distributors since they were hooked up the to truck's electrical system. That wouldn't work so well with a standalone trailer though.

From my limited research, it appears these AENLDs were used in a variety of reefer units so maybe they varied a bit.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:14:19 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Well it's clearly a high capacity pan. It uses the stock oil pump which is a good thing in my book.

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Old 10-22-2019, 02:09:22 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Thermo-King clearly made at least two different custom oil pans for the AENL engine. I have not seen that style pan before. It must have been more cost effective to use the standard oil pump with a very wide pan like that, than having a deep pan made with a custom oil pump. That is definitely an interesting setup. It likely provided the same amount of oil supply as a deeper pan on the varying angles at which these engines operated, all while maintaining a lower center of gravity. This is what the older Thermo-King style AENL pan and oil pump looked like. The pan is about five inches deep.

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Chris
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Old 10-23-2019, 09:59:32 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Chris,

Do you have any information regarding the air cleaners on the early engines with the Stromberg UR? Do they use the standard BI-268 bracket? None of the ones I've seen have had an air cleaner installed. Thanks in advance.

Todd
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:58:21 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin AE

Todd, I looked through my Wisconsin air vane books last night and none of them mentioned an air cleaner bracket or intake horn. They are pictured with an air cleaner that slips directly over the throat of the stromberg carburetor. No part number is called out, but they look like an old air maze filter. There were certain applications for these engines, (Ariens, Simplicity), which had a short upturned cast aluminum elbow and a rubber hose feeding into an oil bath air cleaner. I suspect that after the manuals were printed, Wisconsin may have offered these engines with a cast aluminum intake horn like the later engines used. I have seen very few with what looks like a factory intake. The Stromberg carburetors on these engines had a slightly upturned throat, so you could not mount an AEH intake horn without some modification. The mount in the casting for the air cleaner would also be a mirror opposite of what the later engines used simply because the carburetor is mounted the other way around. Take a look at Mike's AG. I believe it has a factory cast aluminum intake horn. I have seen three engines setup exactly like this, and many more with Briggs or later Wisconsin intake horns which do not fit right.

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179319

Chris
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