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Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start


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  #41  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:48:11 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Can you replace the intake to carb bolt with a longer one, and put a nut on it to draw the carb and intake together? I'm not sure if there's room enough to get a nut under the carb flange or not. For that matter, can you clamp it together with a small pair of vise grips temporarily as a test?

As for the warped upper carb body, I have just used a file and carefully removed material along the outside edge to get them to clamp down tighter. It's been my experience that it's typically the "ears" on the upper half that get pulled down, so filing them has helped me in this regard in the past.
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  #42  
Old 05-26-2012, 12:38:18 AM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by sprkplug View Post
Can you replace the intake to carb bolt with a longer one, and put a nut on it to draw the carb and intake together? I'm not sure if there's room enough to get a nut under the carb flange or not. For that matter, can you clamp it together with a small pair of vise grips temporarily as a test?

As for the warped upper carb body, I have just used a file and carefully removed material along the outside edge to get them to clamp down tighter. It's been my experience that it's typically the "ears" on the upper half that get pulled down, so filing them has helped me in this regard in the past.
I thought about a longer bolt with a nut too, but there definitely isn't enough room to get a nut under the flange, due to the idle screw shaft being in the way (not the idle screw itself, but the shaft that it screws into). I tried a vise grip earlier, but I don't think I was able to get a good enough grip due to there not being enough room under the flange, again because of the idle screw shaft. Stupid design flaw on Briggs and Stratton's part I guess. Unfortunately, the threads that are stripped are on the idle screw side. Had it been on the other side, there would have been plenty of room to put a nut or use the vise grips.

By the "ears" do you mean the two of the three bolt holes that stick out and that are across from each other? If so, what about the third bolt hole on the back - does that one ever get pulled down as well?
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  #43  
Old 05-26-2012, 05:27:02 AM
oldschoolwisconsin oldschoolwisconsin is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by ktrent View Post
It isn't the bolt thats stripped, its the threads in the carb itself. So I will have to have a Heli Coil done on it. As for the warping, I was able to correct any warping on the lower half of the carb with the sandpaper-on-glass method. But the upper half is the problem. How do I file down the surface of the upper half with the built in venturi and the hinge brackets for the float sticking out? With those things sticking out like that, I obviously can't get the carb to sit flat at all on any surface to file it down.
ok well heli-coil the carb, and a milling machine is a machine used to mill parts using a rotating tool called an end-mill. They are used to machine mating surfaces and other types of cuts like them. Any machine shop will have them.
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  #44  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:06:36 PM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

I Heli Coiled the carb. The POS tool to install the coil broke and almost ruined the hole and the threads I had tapped. I couldn't even get it out at first. I will be contacting the company about that one. So far the engine seems to be working good now. I finally got it to run off of choke. I will let it cool down and try again with the engine cold and see if it starts ok.

There is one other issue that is causing problems. The engine vibrates like an SOB. It vibrates so bad on high throttle that the gas cap unscrewed itself completely - and it was tightened down all the way. Even the chain and bar that holds it in the tank came out with the cap and they all fell on the ground. I tightened all the motor mount bolts securing it to the tractor. They are as tight as I can get them, yet it still vibrates very badly. Adjusting the carb did nothing for the vibration. I remember it used to vibrate badly before all this happened with the carb. What could be causing this severe vibration?
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  #45  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:25:16 PM
Road Torpedo Road Torpedo is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

You eaither have a partially sheared flywheel Key, throwing the balance off between the flywheel and crank shaft rotation OR...

you dont want to hear the last or.....................BUT.....i'll tell you anyway.

A bent crank shaft
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  #46  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:31:20 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

First thing that comes to mind is a bent crankshaft or out of balance flywheel. Is the engine currently attached to equipment by direct connection or belt with something driven being badly out of balance?

Bill
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  #47  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:33:07 PM
Road Torpedo Road Torpedo is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by Road Torpedo View Post
You eaither have a partially sheared flywheel Key, throwing the balance off between the flywheel and crank shaft rotation OR...

you dont want to hear the last or.....................BUT.....i'll tell you anyway.

A bent crank shaft

But even a partially sheared key would have little to do with it.

Thats just a small microscopic Ray of hope it's nothing major......like a bent crank shaft
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  #48  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:45:40 PM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Its currently not connected to anything - I have the belt disconnected. How could I tell definitively that it is the crankshaft or the flywheel without dismantling the engine? If it is the crankshaft, how long could the engine last like that, and would it put a significant strain on the connecting rod?
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  #49  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:57:54 PM
Road Torpedo Road Torpedo is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

The engine will run ti'll it rattles it's self apart or the main bearings give out.

The rod has little to do with it. It just converts up and down motion to circular motion.

Exessive vibration is signature to eaither out of align, what i call, "accesory" counter weights, which the 23 model doesnt have, or a bent crank shaft.

Thats just a signature of a bent crank. Exessive vibration. You can pretty much 100% bank on that.

That means an engine tear down and as far as finding another but GOOD crank, ebay comes to mind. Inless some Gentleman on here has one.
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  #50  
Old 05-27-2012, 12:20:21 AM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by Road Torpedo View Post
The engine will run ti'll it rattles it's self apart or the main bearings give out.

The rod has little to do with it. It just converts up and down motion to circular motion.

Exessive vibration is signature to eaither out of align, what i call, "accesory" counter weights, which the 23 model doesnt have, or a bent crank shaft.

Thats just a signature of a bent crank. Exessive vibration. You can pretty much 100% bank on that.

That means an engine tear down and as far as finding another but GOOD crank, ebay comes to mind. Inless some Gentleman on here has one.
And I assume actually being able to see with the naked eye whether the crank is bent while it is running is almost impossible? I had it running again, and I increased the throttle until it began vibrating again and I looked carefully at the pulleys mounted on the rear of the engine, but I didn't see any side-to-side or up and down movement.

So what you're saying is, aside from the vibration, this engine could go years running like this?
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  #51  
Old 05-27-2012, 12:36:57 AM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Those engines used to run smooth - almost no vibration.

Some easy things to do on your 60 year old engine- Take the shroud covering the flywheel off. Look for missing fins or mud dauber nests, cracks, signs of deterioration. If you can get to it, good idea to check key. I have had it where engine ran but key was partly sheared and the bunched up metal caused the flywheel to be off center, and the engine to vibrate.

If flywheel appears ok,
Remove the pulleys. Try it without pulleys.

Still vibrates?
Do you have a dial indicator?
If so, set it up to read runnout on output shaft and on outside of flywheel. Tell us what you get.
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  #52  
Old 05-27-2012, 12:40:58 AM
Road Torpedo Road Torpedo is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Maybee a few years, maybe two years, maybee a few months, weeks, days, hours.

Under Heavy use, who knows. It's sure not healthy for it though.

A crank can be bent and not detectable to the eye. Your talking about thousandth's of an inch. Thats were "run-out" gauges come in...and thats with the crank out of the engine.

A machine shop could tell you. Dont know if they could straigten a little crank like that though. I've never had one straightened. It's always been replaced. I know machine shops see alot of crank shafts though. Maybee there is some inch of hope.
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  #53  
Old 05-27-2012, 12:42:09 AM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Power View Post
Those engines used to run smooth - almost no vibration.

Some easy things to do on your 60 year old engine- Take the shroud covering the flywheel off. Look for missing fins or mud dauber nests, cracks, signs of deterioration. If you can get to it, good idea to check key. I have had it where engine ran but key was partly sheared and the bunched up metal caused the flywheel to be off center, and the engine to vibrate.

If flywheel appears ok,
Remove the pulleys. Try it without pulleys.

Still vibrates?
Do you have a dial indicator?
If so, set it up to read runnout on output shaft and on outside of flywheel. Tell us what you get.
When I had the head off several days ago I noticed a HUGE mouse nest in the shroud. I removed it. The flywheel key - is it easy to get to to check, or do I have to remove the flywheel? What is a dial indicator?
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  #54  
Old 05-27-2012, 12:52:24 AM
Road Torpedo Road Torpedo is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Dial Indicator.

I call'em Run out gauges.

ANYHOW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_indicator
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  #55  
Old 05-27-2012, 02:57:01 AM
oldschoolwisconsin oldschoolwisconsin is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by ktrent View Post
When I had the head off several days ago I noticed a HUGE mouse nest in the shroud. I removed it. The flywheel key - is it easy to get to to check, or do I have to remove the flywheel? What is a dial indicator?
First, glad my advise got your engine running good. Second, a dial indicator is a tool that has a shaft that goes in and out with gears on the inside and a dial with numbers that are thousandths of an inch. Theres a smaller dial in them too, and that is the hundredths. Theyre used for checking flatness and out of roundness and runout. 3rd, to check a flywheel key requires the removal of a flywheel which if your PROPERLY removing a flywheel you gotta use the special Briggs puller they have for them, or other specific methods of removal. Ive removed them using a 2 hammer method-the claw end of a framing hammer under the flywheel and a second hammer to hit the other hammer that is stuffed under the flywheel and alot of -your favourite kind of penetrating oil here- penetrating oil. For me thats Aero Kroil. I have used alot of different kinds of penetrating oils and the best hands down Ive ever used was Aero Kroil. Its made by Kano Labs. But if your lucky, the flywheel most likely has a busted off fin. Or its very heavily corroded on one side if its cast iron.
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  #56  
Old 05-27-2012, 06:50:18 AM
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Unless your 23 is different than mine, there is no flywheel key. They used a tapered crank and weights on the crankshaft throw. The coil attaches to the crank in a recess behind the flywheel so there is no meed for the flywheel to be keyed. I've had mine come loose and just spin after the engine came to a stop. No key to worry about.
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  #57  
Old 05-28-2012, 12:53:56 PM
gootsch gootsch is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

My 23d has a flywheel key.
It has an outside the flywheel, 3 leg coil.
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  #58  
Old 05-28-2012, 04:20:13 PM
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by oldschoolwisconsin View Post
Ive removed them using a 2 hammer method-the claw end of a framing hammer under the flywheel and a second hammer to hit the other hammer that is stuffed under the flywheel.
Are you actually wedging the first hammer under the flywheel until it pops off?? Sounds like a good way to break the flywheel or whatever is backing up the hammer claw.

If you are just putting pressure behind the flywheel with the hammer claw and giving the crankshaft a good solid hit with a soft hammer, that's perfectly fine.

All I have ever used is a large screwdriver and a brass or copper hammer. Works every time.
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  #59  
Old 05-28-2012, 05:13:19 PM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

I am going to install a new head gasket, since I reused the old one temporarily. I already have the gasket. What should the torque be on the head bolts? In the manual it says 200 foot inches, but my torque wrench only shows foot pounds. If you divide 200 inches by 12 inches (one foot), thats only 16 foot pounds. Doesn't seem like enough torque. My Wisconsin AENL head bolts torque to 32 foot pounds.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:24:23 PM
Road Torpedo Road Torpedo is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Diferent torques for diferent engines are diferent things. It's what that particular manufacturer recommended and what those bolts are designed to stretch for.

There are inch pounds and foot pounds. Again, both diferent.

I cant go into spacifics (even though im sure it's kindergarden) but they are.

Inch pounds converted to foot pounds are as fallows. Visa Versa also fallows.

Inch pounds ____ Times .083 = ____ Foot Pounds

Foot pounds ____ Times 12 equals ____ Inch pounds


It's getting hard to almost impossible to find an inch pounds torque wrench these days.

I guess they figure foot pounds to be the sufficiant standard.
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