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Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start


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  #61  
Old 05-29-2012, 04:08:36 AM
oldschoolwisconsin oldschoolwisconsin is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by Junkologist View Post
Are you actually wedging the first hammer under the flywheel until it pops off?? Sounds like a good way to break the flywheel or whatever is backing up the hammer claw.

If you are just putting pressure behind the flywheel with the hammer claw and giving the crankshaft a good solid hit with a soft hammer, that's perfectly fine.

All I have ever used is a large screwdriver and a brass or copper hammer. Works every time.
No. Im using the claw as a pry bar. Then I hit the end of the handle of the hammer with another hammer. Thats how I do it. never broken a flywheel doing so either.

---------- Post added at 01:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktrent View Post
I am going to install a new head gasket, since I reused the old one temporarily. I already have the gasket. What should the torque be on the head bolts? In the manual it says 200 foot inches, but my torque wrench only shows foot pounds. If you divide 200 inches by 12 inches (one foot), thats only 16 foot pounds. Doesn't seem like enough torque. My Wisconsin AENL head bolts torque to 32 foot pounds.
I normally torque them to 10-12 foot pounds.
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  #62  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:29:03 PM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

In the Briggs model 23 manual, it says to use S.A.E 20 oil in the crankcase. Problem is, there is no such thing as straight 2 oil like that. I went to my local True Value and the only thing they had was SAE 20 COMPRESSOR OIL. Here is what it says on the bottle:

"Master Mechanic NON-DETERGENT COMPRESSOR OIL for Oil Dip Lube Systems; SAE 20, For use in light duty applications."

On the back of the bottle it says: "Master Mechanic non-detergent compressor oil is a straight mineral oil containing no additives. For use in light duty applications where a non-detergent oil is recommended. API Service: SA"

Would this oil be good to use in the engine? I would think a compressor oil would not lubricate an internal combustion engine as sufficiently as motor oil. If this won't work, should I just use SAE 30 non-detergent oil instead, like I do in all of my engines?
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  #63  
Old 05-29-2012, 10:04:19 PM
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Junkologist Junkologist is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by oldschoolwisconsin View Post
No. Im using the claw as a pry bar. Then I hit the end of the handle of the hammer with another hammer. Thats how I do it. never broken a flywheel doing so either.
Your method may have worked for you so far, but I think you're going to run into trouble at some point doing it that way. You're putting a lot of radial stress on the crankshaft, plus I have seen flywheels broken in half from people prying on them not knowing the crank was tapered.

Light to medium pressure behind the flywheel with a large screwdriver and a good solid hit to the crankshaft with a soft hammer or a soft drift, and you will never have to worry about damaging anything. Just trying to save you from some headaches down the road.
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  #64  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:41:02 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

"Master Mechanic NON-DETERGENT COMPRESSOR OIL for Oil Dip Lube Systems; SAE 20, For use in light duty applications."

On the back of the bottle it says: "Master Mechanic non-detergent compressor oil is a straight mineral oil containing no additives. For use in light duty applications where a non-detergent oil is recommended. API Service: SA"

I would not use an SA rated oil in a gasoline engine. I think you can either clean out the sump and use 20 detergent, or use 30 non det as you are using in your other engines.
I would be concerned with 30 if I had to run the engine in cold temperatures, though.

---------- Post added at 11:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 PM ----------

The engines I have been dealing with have 2 bosses near the hub - older ones tapped, newer ones I have to tap them. Years ago, I made a piece of angle Iron with 3 holes. The center one takes the rounded head of a brass bolt to press on the crankshaft. the 2 outers take hex bolts with washers under them. I add washers under the bolt heads so that there are about 2 turns until the bolts bottom out in the flywheel.
Usually, a soak with penetrant and tighten each side up evenly - "POP"
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  #65  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:55:41 AM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Why would the manual specifically state not to go heavier than SAE 20? Would anything heavier not coat all internal surfaces properly? What does the SA rating mean? Are there any regular motor oils that have the SA rating?
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  #66  
Old 05-30-2012, 02:26:32 AM
oldschoolwisconsin oldschoolwisconsin is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by ktrent View Post
Why would the manual specifically state not to go heavier than SAE 20? Would anything heavier not coat all internal surfaces properly? What does the SA rating mean? Are there any regular motor oils that have the SA rating?
Id recommend to use Shell Rotella T 10W-30 in it. The reason being is because of its ZDDP(zinc) content. Very good for older flat tappet camshafts, much like the one in this engine. Im currently running Rotella T in my truck, and its great. Truck loves it. Also Im not the only one on the Stak who recommends this oil.
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  #67  
Old 05-30-2012, 03:05:44 AM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by oldschoolwisconsin View Post
Id recommend to use Shell Rotella T 10W-30 in it. The reason being is because of its ZDDP(zinc) content. Very good for older flat tappet camshafts, much like the one in this engine. Im currently running Rotella T in my truck, and its great. Truck loves it. Also Im not the only one on the Stak who recommends this oil.
Is that non-detergent oil?

---------- Post added at 03:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 AM ----------

Also, I was watching the front part of the crank as it was running, and it seems as though the starter cup "wobbles" and has an area that's slightly bent. I don't think its loose. If the starter cup is even slightly bent or out of shape, could that cause the engine to vibrate like I described? Unfortunately, I have no way of testing it, because if I remove the cup, how am I going to start it?
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  #68  
Old 05-30-2012, 08:30:02 PM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
Those engines used to run smooth - almost no vibration.

Some easy things to do on your 60 year old engine- Take the shroud covering the flywheel off. Look for missing fins or mud dauber nests, cracks, signs of deterioration. If you can get to it, good idea to check key. I have had it where engine ran but key was partly sheared and the bunched up metal caused the flywheel to be off center, and the engine to vibrate.

If flywheel appears ok,
Remove the pulleys. Try it without pulleys.

Still vibrates?
Do you have a dial indicator?
If so, set it up to read runnout on output shaft and on outside of flywheel. Tell us what you get.
I took the front shroud off and discovered one of the fins is partially broken off - almost half of it is missing - like something took a "bite" out of it. There were no nests or other debris in there - just the partially broken fin on the flywheel. Could that one missing piece of fin cause the engine to vibrate like that?
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  #69  
Old 05-30-2012, 11:45:30 PM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

I found a post on here back in March on this topic: "Briggs Flywheel Conundrum" http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102764

What if I broke off a fin directly across from the one thats broken and then grind both down flat?

It appears the fin was broken by previous owner when he removed the flywheel. I see a new wire going from the condenser/breaker points to under the flywheel, so I know he removed it. He probably used the wood block method and wedged it under the fin while trying to remove the flywheel.

Would this one broken fin cause that much excessive vibration that I described? I removed the starter cup pulley, and it was slightly out of shape - the outer lip was bent in one spot and there was a high spot on the back part that mounts up against the flywheel. I pounded those dents out with a hammer and now its pretty straight, but still the engine vibrates.

Is there any other way to re-balance the flywheel? That flywheel has been discontinued, so I won't be able to get another one, unless its a used one somewhere.
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  #70  
Old 05-31-2012, 01:30:41 AM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

I doubt one broken fin on the flywheel would cause that much vibration as described. My bet is a bent crankshaft and think I would check that out first before breaking off another fin. I wonder if the engine may have been dropped or fell on the crankshaft which may have also resulted in the broken fin.

Bill
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  #71  
Old 05-31-2012, 01:42:51 AM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by Bill Sherlock View Post
I doubt one broken fin on the flywheel would cause that much vibration as described. My bet is a bent crankshaft and think I would check that out first before breaking off another fin. I wonder if the engine may have been dropped or fell on the crankshaft which may have also resulted in the broken fin.

Bill
I would not know if the engine was dropped by previous owner. I can tell you I haven't dropped it. But I am trying to figure out how the crankshaft could get bent on a tractor. I have attached an example pic of my tractor. I always thought direct drive machines like small push mowers were prone to bent cranks due to the blade being directly attached to the crank. Most attachments (ie a mower deck) that would go on this tractor would be belt driven and you would think that if anything would cause the (deck) to stop suddenly, like a rock, it would just bend the blade, damage a pulley, or burn a belt.
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  #72  
Old 05-31-2012, 01:44:56 AM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

This picture of the tractor that I attached is of my tractor that the engine in question is mounted to.
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  #73  
Old 05-31-2012, 01:51:31 AM
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

Abuse, like heavy uneven wedging of flywheel to remove it could cause a bend. I agree with you, unlikely to bend due to deck jam in service. Typically belt slips, engine stalls.
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  #74  
Old 05-31-2012, 01:57:17 AM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
Abuse, like heavy uneven wedging of flywheel to remove it could cause a bend. I agree with you, unlikely to bend due to deck jam in service. Typically belt slips, engine stalls.
Thats why I always heard the best way to lock the engine in place, and prevent it from turning while removing flywheel, is to stuff a small diameter rope into spark plug hole and turn engine over until it stops. This way you're not wedging anything under flywheel to keep it from turning.
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  #75  
Old 05-31-2012, 05:15:50 AM
oldschoolwisconsin oldschoolwisconsin is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

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Originally Posted by ktrent View Post
Is that non-detergent oil?

---------- Post added at 03:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 AM ----------

Also, I was watching the front part of the crank as it was running, and it seems as though the starter cup "wobbles" and has an area that's slightly bent. I don't think its loose. If the starter cup is even slightly bent or out of shape, could that cause the engine to vibrate like I described? Unfortunately, I have no way of testing it, because if I remove the cup, how am I going to start it?
1. it is detergent oil(which I recommend coz it holds all the crap in it and when you change it all the crap comes out with the oil) its designed to hold the crap in a diesel or regular pressure lubricated system til it goes through the oil filter and then it gets trapped in the filter. 2. your bent starter cup COULD cause the vibration problem
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  #76  
Old 05-31-2012, 06:02:21 PM
ktrent ktrent is offline
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Default Re: Briggs and Stratton Model 23 Engine Won't start

I want to try and replace the flywheel and see if that corrects the problem. Does anyone know where I can get one or does anyone have one? They are discontinued from Briggs & Stratton, so I would have to get a used one. I checked in the area and on ebay but found nothing. The part number is: 291657
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