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Briggs, rant


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  #1  
Old 12-05-2013, 08:28:48 PM
CaseHead
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Default Briggs, rant

Hello;

My 2 cents are after having to endure china parts from Briggs and Stratton, I am plain beyond disgusted.
On the point set, made in china, the set screw would not turn. So, of course, I had to take time out to fix the stupid thing, or you don't gap the points right, okay? next although I was being patient, the cheap ground wire tore off the points. Of course I had to take time out to fix that. So, this being repaired also on my new set of china made Briggs points, I attempted to mount them on the 16 HP block. Nope. Screw holes don't line up, how dumb of me to think that they ever would. Soooo, after messing with making this problem right I tried to gap them, but now they won't open at all. Reason is they used the wrong thickness of the nut on the "right" point set.

In closing, i have been around long enough to remember when Briggs was one of the better, most durable engine you would want. Parts were good too. Back then. Now, they sell boat anchors, they sold their legacy out, they sold out the American worker so that their bean counters could make them rich.
Wonder if they though about what is gonna happen to them when we finally wise up to their junk.

Briggs. made in CHINA.
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2013, 08:41:47 PM
3VO 3VO is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Sad as it is consumers in general are to blame. We want everything dirt cheap. The only way for a manufacturer to keep the doors open is to drive the price down. That is unless you can fix prices.

The guys over in the myTractorForum have a 3 page thread going on "The cheapening of the Briggs engines". Started out with a gripe about plastic cam gears or such. I would leave the link but did not retain 100% of the forum rules and would rather be safe then sorry.
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2013, 09:13:16 PM
BlkBeard BlkBeard is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

It's not just Briggs, It's EVERYTHING.
I call it Brand Name Destruction.

Brands you could count on that your Grandfather favored, and your father favored, and you favored.

I needed a set of 1/2"Drive Deep Well Metric Sockets.
I bought a set of Williams........A Good American Brand that have been passed down through Generations. (And is owned by SNAP-ON)

Never even thought to see where they were made.

MADE IN TAIWAN

I guess that beats MADE IN CHINA
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2013, 09:19:58 PM
Pat Barrett Pat Barrett is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

They will harp on the fact they are made in America, when if fact, they're assembled here, to some degree, (probably installing the air filter). And in one sense, they've done it to themselves. That's what happens, when they run all the old heads off and think they need "New" blood, and the new blood don't know beans but have convinced the top dogs they do.

---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------

And yes, we've sold Williams for years, usta be fine tool. They're ratchets are junk.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:14:12 PM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Hmmm, all of my Briggs & Stratton engines are made in the USA. Oooooh thats right, the newest Briggs I have is a 1985 model 19000. I have had the unfortunate luck of working on a few newer briggs engines and I have to say that they are absolure pieces of junk. There is a reason that of the 107 engines I own, only three are made after 1985. If you ask me, the peak of small air cooled engine design, and reliability was in the 1960's with the Kohler K series and the entire heavy duty line of Wisconsin engines. Everyone today praises Honda and Kawasaki for this that and the other thing. Yeah they might be good compared to what ever else is available today, but they are certainly not the best. Compare Honda's best to any Lister air cooled diesel, or any Wisconsin air cooled engine. That Honda would wear out, blow up or need to be replaced a dozen or more times before the real brutes would even show a sign of needing attention!

Chris
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:34:38 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

It's not just Briggs. And yes, the contact sets are now imported...Tecumseh is the same way, not sure on Kohler but will check and see. The fact is, point triggered ignition components account for a miniscule portion of parts sales anymore. Small engine manufacturers buy or produce parts in bulk quantities in order to keep costs down....Slow moving parts, (point ignitions), are not in demand like they once were, due to breaker ignitions being phased out almost 30 years ago. And they are not produced in large amounts anymore.

So, in order to keep a set of points from costing $35-$40, they outsource the few sets they need from another, often offshore, vendor for a cheaper price.

The last few sets of "genuine" Tecumseh points I have tried to use have been completely inoperable. I finally did locate a handful of old style contact sets, that still perform as they should.

Such is the way of things. As equipment ages, parts availability and support dwindle. Cars, motorcycles, airplanes, or small engines.....they all suffer in this regard.

---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tron View Post
Hmmm, all of my Briggs & Stratton engines are made in the USA. Oooooh thats right, the newest Briggs I have is a 1985 model 19000. I have had the unfortunate luck of working on a few newer briggs engines and I have to say that they are absolure pieces of junk. There is a reason that of the 107 engines I own, only three are made after 1985. If you ask me, the peak of small air cooled engine design, and reliability was in the 1960's with the Kohler K series and the entire heavy duty line of Wisconsin engines. Everyone today praises Honda and Kawasaki for this that and the other thing. Yeah they might be good compared to what ever else is available today, but they are certainly not the best. Compare Honda's best to any Lister air cooled diesel, or any Wisconsin air cooled engine. That Honda would wear out, blow up or need to be replaced a dozen or more times before the real brutes would even show a sign of needing attention!

Chris
I have to disagree....breaker ignitions require regular maintenance to operate in the manner that they should. Electronic ignition systems do not. In addition, today's engines run quieter, smoother, and with less emissions.

I'll take a comparable Kaw over a Kohler any day. And I'm a Kohler dealer!

I think many times the affection felt for older designs stems not from their supposed ruggedness, but rather their simplicity.....anyone could work on a carbureted K-series, not so much an EFI equipped Kaw.

The same thing was said 30 years ago with automobiles.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:48:36 PM
Pat Barrett Pat Barrett is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Pipe back in, again. Sorta off the subject but, still on it. Try finding an American made brass air/gas/water valve today. Remember Crane, Hammond, etc. Truly hard to find an American made valve. Still available in the oilfield where quality counts but, elsewhere, the foreign's have taken over. They are cheap to buy and are cheap made. So many other products have fallen into this catagory. Usta could buy some string packing and pack the stem, re-cut the seat on globe type valves, but now, just toss them and replace.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:59:49 PM
3VO 3VO is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Also would like to pipe back in on one thing. The federal government has made it very unattractive to manufacture in the US.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2013, 12:19:31 AM
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

I always liked that Briggs had very good parts support for even very old models. But now with a lot of the parts for even quite common models are being made in china I am not sure if I would rather them not even offer the parts if the ones they are offering are junk or sometimes don't even work.

I view ever dollar I spend as a vote. Almost every single thing I buy is large majority USA with Europe, Canada and Mexico behind that.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:21:41 AM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Same with all stuff
Just last week I had a riding mower and push mower that were 2011 models.Both Bolens from lowes.The rider was a month out of warranty, the push mower 2 months. They were bought in 2012.
Intake valve spring on the rider. Briggs engine.I felt like I was working on a toy. Cheap made 13 hp engine.It was cold last week and i guess it is so leaned out for emissions.I run it on choke for a long time before it would warm up.
Push mower.Pure junk.The wheels were not attached to the metal frame. They were attached to a piece of plastic bolted to the frame.So in a short time,the plastic will break,and the plastic will no longer be available as replacement parts. CHEAPO.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:43:38 AM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyblue66 View Post
Same with all stuff
Just last week I had a riding mower and push mower that were 2011 models.Both Bolens from lowes.The rider was a month out of warranty, the push mower 2 months. They were bought in 2012.
Intake valve spring on the rider. Briggs engine.I felt like I was working on a toy. Cheap made 13 hp engine.It was cold last week and i guess it is so leaned out for emissions.I run it on choke for a long time before it would warm up.
Push mower.Pure junk.The wheels were not attached to the metal frame. They were attached to a piece of plastic bolted to the frame.So in a short time,the plastic will break,and the plastic will no longer be available as replacement parts. CHEAPO.
Hmmmm...they were bought in 2012, and they were already out of warranty? Most equipment I see carries a two year warranty, (for homeowner use), and it starts when the piece is sold...not the manufacturing date on the engine/equipment. And Briggs, who would warranty the engine on that Bolens, is also a 2 year warranty.

Curious...what did you find with the intake spring? I'm not seeing any problems in that area.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:59:52 AM
vinceostapowich vinceostapowich is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Quote:
I'll take a comparable Kaw over a Kohler any day. And I'm a Kohler dealer!

I think many times the affection felt for older designs stems not from their supposed ruggedness, but rather their simplicity.....anyone could work on a carbureted K-series, not so much an EFI equipped Kaw.
I agree with you simply on the basis that Ive had all the manufacturers motors in my riders over the years,but,I have a husqavarna with a 15hp kawasaki that has been trouble free for almost 1400 hours.
Ive gone through batteries,bearings,redid the entire deck twice,electric clutch,bushings.
But the motor has ran perfect throughout.
I change the air filter,fuel filter ,and change the full synth oil ever year.
Maybe its the oil
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:09:49 AM
R Towne R Towne is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

I avoid purchasing products made in China as often as possible, but I also am also sure that not one of these products or parts doesn't meet the specifications that the US company contracted them to build. That is where the blame lies with the quality. The economics of off shore and cross border production is another subject.

Remember to check labels before you make a purchase.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2013, 11:49:19 AM
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Just curious, what did you pay for the point set? Why not scrap the points and for $20.00 install a universal electronic ignition? Once the engine is together you don't see it and you will never have to worry about the obsolete points again!!
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:18:35 PM
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

The best advice I can say for parts on your older engines is use a paid advertiser here or use Ebay and buy N.O.S parts you know were made here. In regards to Briggs parts made in China I think most are now. A good example I always use are the Flo-Jet carbs for 8-12hp flatheads they used on leaf blowers, generators, etc. The $140.00 carb comes in a genuine Briggs box with a smaller plain box inside that has the carb in it. Look on the label on the Briggs box under the part # it says in small print "made in china". I think most of their tooling has been sent there for obvious reasons. It simply costs too much to make here. Between union labor, healthcare, EPA regs, taxes, the corporate boys want to make sure their pay stays fat so they trim the fat in other areas to keep the place going. We have lost manufacturing here for those reasons. Its simply FAR cheaper to make elsewhere.

As far as comparing old engines to new it cant be done, the quality on most today arent like they used to be. Honda and Kawi ARE better engines than Briggs, Tec, etc but cant be compared to Listers, and Wisconsins because those engines cost way more to start with in the first place although I will say the Honda GC series is fair the GX series have always been reliable long life engines. I have a GX140 on an air compressor thats 20 years old and still runs like new and Ive done little to it over the years. Kohler Courage engines on the other hand are complete GARBAGE and should be stayed away from. Honda and Kawi would be my first choices and most Kawi's are made or assembled in the USA btw. The only thing Ive never liked about Honda or Kawi is that they dont offer short blocks. You either piece meal a rebuild in parts or replace the entire engine.

I think the reason why the surge on old things is on in general these days is because people for the most part are fed up with buying disposable garbage these days.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:49:55 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Last year for the Kohler Courage. It's going away.

I'm not so sure about most folks being fed up with cheaper equipment. Certainly, that applies here on the Stak, but this is only a tiny minority of the OPE buying public. From what I see, initial cost still drives the purchase, far more so than quality. There's an entire generation, or two, that are accustomed to buying product this way.

I just took a quick survey of my Briggs parts on the shelf. I found four manufacturing locations: USA, China, Mexico, and Japan....all in OEM Briggs packaging.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:18:17 PM
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Part of the problem is repair cost.
My neighbors tell me lawnmower shops around here get about $100 just to look at it. They think that it will cost as much or more than a new one to get it fixed.

I get lawnmowers that need an hour or 2 of work this way. Have not bought one in 23 years.

I just looked at sears - a NEW 22" self propelled for $139.
Briggs or Husquevera engine.
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:25:48 PM
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprkplug View Post
Last year for the Kohler Courage. It's going away.

I'm not so sure about most folks being fed up with cheaper equipment. Certainly, that applies here on the Stak, but this is only a tiny minority of the OPE buying public. From what I see, initial cost still drives the purchase, far more so than quality. There's an entire generation, or two, that are accustomed to buying product this way.

I just took a quick survey of my Briggs parts on the shelf. I found four manufacturing locations: USA, China, Mexico, and Japan....all in OEM Briggs packaging.
Interesting to see Japan. most Japanese engine manufacturing takes place in China... in Jap owned factories. that's why current Honda style engines from China take such a beating... depending if you get the brands, some of are pumped out of the same factories as the big 4.


I've heard since the old days Kohler was the go to engine. well that and probably Honda but, then again I'm bias towards Jap engines but, can you blame me?

Whne Tec and Briggs were pushing Flate heads and shell bearings, Honda was selling OHV, Hemi, ball bearing engines. a design still being sold today.



---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

EDIT: I have to disagree with K tron i've seen Hondas run with out a working oil pump due to user error, sure it got Fed up but, it ran...for miles and miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvhyeWtBb8g

I admit it broke but, once the two guys who know what they are doing fix it, the problems go away.

Personally I've never had any problems with My Honda clones other the one's i've created.

I rather abused my old lifan. I had to have red line it fora quarter mile once, with no oil cooler, it got so hot the valve guide must have swelled up cause it didn't run so smoother till i let it cool off.

not perfect but, too shabby for a china motor.

---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------

EDIT: Don't get me wrong the old American engines are still ar still kicking along today unrestored or with just coat of paint, special those old iron hit and miss engines. Before it was stolen my dad had till with an old 50s/60s briggs, it had low compression but, it ran and started consistently.
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:29:51 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Power View Post
Part of the problem is repair cost.
My neighbors tell me lawnmower shops around here get about $100 just to look at it. They think that it will cost as much or more than a new one to get it fixed.

I get lawnmowers that need an hour or 2 of work this way. Have not bought one in 23 years.

I just looked at sears - a NEW 22" self propelled for $139.
Briggs or Husquevera engine.

I don't get a hundred dollars, but the gist of what you say is oftentimes true. An hour or two of work is fine if you can do it yourself, but if you need to pay a shop to make the same repairs, it may be wise to do some comparison shopping....fix the old, vs buying new.

I don't know of any shops around here getting rich by repairing equipment....many people are unaware of just what it takes to keep the lights on. Case in point: It's 2:30 in the afternoon, been snowing since last night, and I haven't seen that first customer yet....and probably won't.

In many areas of the country, this line of work is seasonal. A shop needs to survive the lean times, and most do so by banking away funds when times are good, or taking out a loan to get them through the winter.

The record books are full of small engine repair shops that went under their first, or second winter. It may look easy, but it's not. There's more to it than turning a wrench.
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:42:25 PM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Briggs, rant

I realy don't care where Brigs make there engines. they were never a good engine and if I had a choice I wouldn't use one anyway. I have blown up two on my ride on lawn mower.
Thirty or so years ago we used Brigg's on pumps and blowers and only ever got two years out of them before giving trouble. They were worked hard. I changed to Honda's, they would go for years trouble free and not even have to change the sparkplug.
I think even some Honda's are now made in China so I suppose they be will not as good as they were
The market for Briggs is for cheap lawn mowers and such, so for the little use they get eack week they last a few years and people think they are good.
Merv.
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