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2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting


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  #1  
Old 04-16-2014, 09:42:57 AM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

If you all don't mind me asking why do I have so much trouble with 2 cycle engines?
Most I can get to run.
Some I have recently got running because I bought a ultrasonic cleaner and have spent more time cleaning the carbs.
But I am working on 1 in particular for the most picky customer, my dad, that is driving me batty.

He bought a new Green Machine 2200 trimmer-brushcutter in about 1982 and still uses it. I know it must have a zillion hours on it because I ran it in the late 80's doing yard work. He loves it and is used to it.
I had picked up several over the years for parts as I know these things aren't being made anymore and parts would get hard to find.
I decided last week to get 1 going from about 3 I had here.
I have gotten it as far as all parts in good shape.Has ran and trimmed grass. But I had to spray a little brake clean in the carb to fire it the first time. Once that was done, you could run it and use it as you wish. Cut it off, a hour later, single pull start.
Well I got it to that point last night after fighting the throttle cable. Ran good.
But as always since I started this project, This morning, no start. Shot some brake clean,fires.
The plug is getting soaked. I have tried 3. Spark is bright, and consistent. Compression is good. It has more than the machines I use all the time.Actually a bit hard to crank.
I checked the muffler this morning, fine. I checked the bore,no scars,piston looks great.
carb is clean,new fuel line and good clean fuel.I put a good gasket between the carb and engine,1 next to cylinder,1 near carb.
I have done everything I know, includeing looking up and asking for guidance.
It just annoys me that it runs good some times once it starts.

Would someone please tell me what it is about these #*^$* 2 cycle engines I am missing??
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  #2  
Old 04-16-2014, 09:49:00 AM
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KeithW KeithW is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Check the crank seals. If it is not compressing in the crank then it does not charge the cylinder. A small leak might make it hard to start but it would run alright and would start when the seal has fuel and oil on it.

keithw
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  #3  
Old 04-16-2014, 10:36:58 AM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Thank ye. Perhaps that is the missing link in my weak little chain of knowledge.The engine was complete but had not run for a long time.What I had to do was swap throttle cable,shaft and shroud and recoil start to make a decent looking complete machine.
I will see if I can find a break down of it on partstree.com and go ahead and have a seal handy when I tear it apart.
I want to beat this thing,either by making it run, or beating it against a tree! Feel more like the later!
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:43:02 AM
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bigGURN bigGURN is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Ah, Green machines.... we where a dealer for them and up until recently we still had TWO that where brand new and wouldn't start, right out of the box they where that way, just as you described. There where a couple of known issues, 1) some of the carbs had issues with the jets & ports being sized correctly, or a warped and/or cracked spacer from the factory. 2) there where known crank seal issues that develop in these motors, 3) Holes/cracks in the fuel line/ or primer bulb that caused them to draw air. Once cheated to start (i.e. adding fuel directly into combustion) they would run fine. On one of the NOS units, we put the carb off of my fathers old Green Machine when it died, and now that one runs without issue. The other my brother took the engine for parts as nothing seemed to get it going. I placed a Zenoa Motor (off a redmax) that was run over by a truck on the shaft and now the wife uses the many attachments in the yard and garden. You may try switching between carbs and see what you get.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:44:06 AM
BlkBeard BlkBeard is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Try a new air filter also, if you haven't already.

They plug easily, and blowing them out doesn't seem to work that well.
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:12:42 AM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Thanks.
I checked partstree and no luck finding a break down. So I went to pops basement and got the box his new 1 came in and got the paper work from it.
I will still have to take the parts engine apart and see if there is a seal number on it. The parts breakdown looks more like it shows 3 bearings on the crank instead of 2 and a seal?
So I will leave the machine I want to fix intact and tear apart the parts engine for informational purpose.
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:21:44 AM
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KeithW KeithW is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Few engine makers make their own seals. Once you get a look at you should find numbers that can be found an an industrial supplier.

keithw
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:24:24 AM
I like oldstuff I like oldstuff is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

I had one with similar faults. The reed valve turned a bit and was leaking therefore it couldn't build crankcase pressure at low revs.

You've already spent more time and money on it than two of them are worth. Toss the POS and buy him a new one.

Last edited by I like oldstuff; 04-16-2014 at 11:35:40 AM.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:29:17 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Well I had him 1 last year, 1 of those Troybuilt things with the springy starter. He cussed it because he couldnt pull it to suit him and went back to his old 1. So at 80 years old if he wants a green machine, then I will keep pecking at it.
And to be completely honest, I am tired of giveing up on these dang things. I want to find that missing bit of knowledge or whatever the issue is that haunts me on the more meaningfull stuff.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:56:28 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Green machines had 3 major issues. 1) mag did not hold up well - if it outlasted warrenty, you were lucky! 2) these machinnes hated the new crap E-10 fuel. It ate the tanks, fuel lines, and the crank seals with abandon. The carbs didn't like it either - the diaphrams usually lasted a season, if that. 30 plastic carb mounting parts tended to crack - just cheap materials here.

With you having to prime to start, a couple things to test before attempting to start - if your machine has a primer, check the primer bulb and the fuel lines for cracks. age and alcohol degrade them. Pull the spark plug and pull the engine over, making sure to ground the plug. As the engine is turning, you should feel slight compression as the crankcase pressirizes, and you should hear and feel it release as the piston uncovers the transfer port. look under the flywheel and at the output shaft for oily residue, and listen carefully for air leaks. What are you using for fuel/oil ratio? If 40:1 try increasing oil to 32:1, it may help with the seals.
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Old 04-16-2014, 05:29:53 PM
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OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
.... What are you using for fuel/oil ratio? If 40:1 try increasing oil to 32:1, it may help with the seals.
I have very limited knowledge on two strokes, but I would stay as close to what the unit calls for on the oil/fuel ratio.

From what I've heard and read that is one of the biggest mistakes people make with them thinking that extra oil will help lubricate things better. What happens is the thicker mixture is harder to draw through the jets and they run lean because of it and end up scoring the piston. Just the opposite of what they were trying to do by running more oil.

Stick with what it calls for.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:48:53 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Ok, I use a 1 gallon mix bottle of 50-1 Huskyvarna oil in 9/10ths of a gallon of gas in my 2 cycles and have put some in this as well.
Been busy today so havent checked the plastic yet.
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Old 04-16-2014, 09:09:51 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

I doubt very much that there would be an ascertainable difference in viscosity between a 32-1 and 40-1 gas to oil mixture. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the subject could advise in this regard. Personally I have no qualms in using a lower gas/oil ratio than what's called for in some of my 2 cycle engines and have had no adverse effects when I have done so.

Bill
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Old 04-16-2014, 09:19:35 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

I use a rich mixture of oil in my Stihl trimmer, I bought it in 1990, just recently changed fuel lines primer and spark plug. On you green machine, can you choke it with your finger? Remove the plug, hold your finger over the carb and crank it, if you feel it pulling a vacuum I would say the crank case is sealed well enough.
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:52:37 PM
Dwayne Oxford Dwayne Oxford is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

I run 32-1 in all my 2 cycle no prob. Use NO ethanol gas, stuff's the death knell to 2 cycles. 10% ethanol=1% water, oil and water DONT mix. Use mix to prime with too. Carb cleaner destroys lube needed for everything. I check compression on them by lifting them by the pull start. If their weight causes them to plop, plop, plop down slowly they're OK. Try this with a new one, you'll get the idea. If they wont lift by pull rope, piston/ring is shot. You're not getting enough gas for cold start for whatever reason if it still has good compression cold. I take it you did replace pump diaphragm in carb?
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:04:43 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Yea, I cleaned and replaced everything.
I have been busy or I woulda jumped back on this. Have a Scag zero turn in the shop.Has a burnt valve.
been busy getting it apart.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:52:09 AM
Klicknative Klicknative is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Make sure the vacuum port for the pump side of the carb is clear.
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:56:13 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Going from 40 to 32 does make a difference. As for fuel mix on new machines 2011 and newer, mix ratio is critical, as EPA regulations have made adjustable carbs a thing of the past. new technology has made fuel/oil/air ratios critical to engine performance. Nowdays, most manufacturers recommend carb replacement, as alky fuel degrades the carbs if stale fuel is used or left in the engine. Carb cleaner is also a NO-NO, as it removes the alky resistant protectant on internal parts, put on by the manufacturers.
Andrew
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:31:57 PM
brew56 brew56 is offline
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Default Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

I have a type 2 Weedeater that starts easy enough but have to feather the throttle to rev it up. It has a choke and no promer bulb. Any ideas or info will be appreciated
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Old 05-13-2014, 04:46:38 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: 2 cycle weedeater engine troubleshooting

Brew 56, sounds like a lean condition on your main jets. Vheck to see if there is any varnish in the carb. If adjustable, turn the high speed adjuster out 1/8 turn, and see if that does it.

Uglyblue 66, how did you make out with the green machine? One test I always tried was to try and pick up the weed eater engine with the starter cord, with the plug installed. If the machine stays on the floor, or drops rapidly thru the compression stroke, then piston/cylinder fit is bad. Not much hope for it if compression is bad.
Andrew
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