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Briggs ZZ flywheel key


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  #21  
Old 03-29-2010, 09:05:39 AM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Hey Sky,
I think the reason the "Book" says don't solder the plug wire to the terminal on the coil is so that some heavy handed "mechanic" doesn't damage the coil by using too much heat. As for the keys, most all of the engines I have disassembled have the aluminum keys and I know some of em were never apart. Several times I have found steel keys in alpha or f series but they were obviously too large and there was coincidental damage to go along with it, ie split wheel hubs at the key.
To settle this for you I am going to email Mr. Marshall and ask him to
weigh in on it. This will be interesting. There is one thing about Tom though, his forte is motorwheels and the earlier series engines but, we'll see what he has to say.

Everett Hayden
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:08:48 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Mike,

OK, I stand corrected on saying it might be OK to use a steel flywheel key in an engine that wouldn't be subjected to a sudden stop. The thought of a mechanical failure in the engine itself hadn't occurred to me! I'll replace that steel key in my Iron Horse engine as soon as I can find an aluminum woodruff key!

Bill
  #23  
Old 03-29-2010, 01:18:56 PM
Jim Tremble Jim Tremble is offline
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Bill

Any small engine shop will have the aluminum woodruff keys.

Not a good idea to have a steel key installed.

Jim
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:37:31 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Jim,

Haven't had any luck at the shops where I've asked, and don't think some even realized there was such a thing. I haven't had any luck searching on-line either as inevitably it will always land up either not finding the item or will lead me to the listing for steel woodruff keys.

Bill
  #25  
Old 03-29-2010, 05:11:28 PM
Sean B. Sean B. is offline
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Something else that no one has mentioned, is that the TAPER of the crank and flywheel are what keep the flywheel from spinning NOT THE KEY. Its purpose is to keep the two in proper time, as the nut is tightend. We ran gokart engines (5HP briggs), for years with no key at all, in order to advance the timing, worked fine. Sky, no offense buddy, but we are talking about engines built at least 60 years ago, how would you know FOR SURE, that it hadnt allready been apart? Your FH was built 84 years ago. Think about it. I see your point, but I think you are wrong on this one. I do enjoy your posts though.
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:07:56 PM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Bill,
I don't think it would too awful hard to make a key, if you like to tinker. I would just get some aluminum stock the right thickness and start carving.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:12:10 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

I have NEVER seen a Aluminum Woodruff key. Does any of the NOS Briggs parts suppliers have B&S P/N 66403 to confirm that it is made from aluminum. I thought Briggs started using Aluminum flywheel keys in the late 50's/Early 60's on their aluminum block engines.

Kent
  #28  
Old 03-30-2010, 09:29:56 AM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Kent,
I have two new old stock ones in the original small envelopes from Briggs. Actually, they are pot metal or zink or white metal, whichever you choose to call it. Briggs may have gone to the zinc keys in the mid twenties. I buy the original keys any time they come up at any sort of reasonable price and, from time to time they do. I have wrecked / butchered a few of them while trying to remove from the keyway.
Everett
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  #29  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:06:59 AM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

I am pretty sure I have one or two in their original package as well. They bring pretty good money on Ebay. I had a couple of these keys made up once; a wire feed EDM cutter was used to make them. They came out pretty decent, but still needed some hand fitting with a file. I have also found mostly aluminum keys in the various early Briggs I have taken apart. I have found a few steel keys as well, in one instance in my Model P engine the key way was so worn, a larger steel key was used which in turn ruined both the crank and flywheel hub. I was able to replace both but it wasn't very easy. In front of me currently is an original copy of "Instructions and Parts List for Type "FI" Fullpower Briggs & Stratton Engine" The back cover of this manual states that is was revised "January 1930" On Page 13 of this manual it says
“The key, which holds the flywheel in place, is made of aluminum so that it will shear off if the flywheel becomes loose, thereby not allowing any damage to be done to the keyways in the flywheel or crankshaft. The aluminum key is merely used to locate the parts in their proper relationship and SHOULD NEVER be replaced with a STEEL KEY." Most other early original manuals say the exact same things. Most likely if a steel key is found in an engine; the owner used what he had to keep the engine running until a replacement could be found.

~ Jonathan
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:27:56 PM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Quote:
Originally Posted by K D Redd View Post
I have NEVER seen a Aluminum Woodruff key. Does any of the NOS Briggs parts suppliers have B&S P/N 66403 to confirm that it is made from aluminum. I thought Briggs started using Aluminum flywheel keys in the late 50's/Early 60's on their aluminum block engines.

Kent
I have an old original Briggs Model B manual parts book and it specifically mentions that the flywheel is mounted using a "soft key" and the key pictured is a woodruff type key.

I just took apart 2 more WMx engines and, as usual, both the straight keys were aluminum.
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  #31  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:00:43 PM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

The key on my '42 model B is definately Aluminium
To be honest it is the only engine that I have with an alloy key, most of the British stuff use steel.

Pete.
  #32  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:26:09 PM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

My local Ace hardware caries aluminum (pot metal) Woodruff keys. Or they did a few years ago. That's where I got the replacement for my "A".
  #33  
Old 03-30-2010, 09:11:24 PM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

I finally found my Briggs Model ZZ owners manual and copied the paragraphs that specifically state to use a soft key.
Hopefully it will be readable when posted here.
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  #34  
Old 04-02-2010, 07:24:55 AM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Well hate to tell you guys this. But I pulled an old Briggs out of a junk pile my brother had. Pulled the flywheel to save it. Found a steel key. This engine has never been apart before,I know that for a fact. Maybe it was not supposed to be there but it was. I have never yet found a sheared key. They are always twisted and hell to get off. Never say Never. I installed an Onan engine on a power washer. Went to crank it,no spark. Checked the point box,no points. This was on an engine direct from the factory with the run test tag on it. So never say it can't be.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:11:29 AM
Gil Garceau Gil Garceau is offline
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

I just read through this thread. It seems just common sense that in the days when many engine owners did their own maintainence there would be many times where said owner would find his aluminum key had begun to twist, shear, and get loose, he would just do the logical thing and replace it with the most readily available item which happens to be a steel key. Remember many never looked at the manual beyond the day it was new and nearly all those aluminum keys got deformed over time.

Also consider this: If you didn't find your engine in an unmolested sealed B&S shipping crate or similar, you can not possibly say with any certainty that an engine from the 1920's did not experience a key change if you did not find it until the 1960's,70's,80's,90's,00's. Sometimes simple logic makes the most sense. I would go with the manual.
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  #36  
Old 04-03-2010, 11:46:07 AM
Eds Cushmans Eds Cushmans is offline
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

i just took apart a briggs model bp on a generator that had a steel key
  #37  
Old 04-03-2010, 01:13:47 PM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Yea, and I pulled apart a wm one time and it had a f*&#ing beer bottle cap in the pan. So what.
  #38  
Old 04-03-2010, 02:34:15 PM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter how many engines are found today with a steel key. Nobody can draw the conclusion that they came from the factory that way. Furthermore, all official documentation supports the fact that they were aluminum or "soft" to begin with.

Go on and keep pointing out that you are finding steel keys, but you are missing the whole point of this debate, along with Sky...
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  #39  
Old 04-03-2010, 02:36:28 PM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean B. View Post
Yea, and I pulled apart a wm one time and it had a f*&#ing beer bottle cap in the pan. So what.
Do you suppose it came from the factory that way?? What's the part number for that bottle cap?
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  #40  
Old 04-03-2010, 03:09:26 PM
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Default Re: Briggs ZZ flywheel key

even if it did have a steel key it would be smart to put a aluminum key in it. if u sheared it off you might save the engine. instead of a heap of scrap. ive seen them both ways. my grandfather is ninty and worked on them all his life. had to drive down the road to confirm the debate. as mentioned earlier that they could not find aluminum keys. just think how hard it was when it was built for them. steel keys were easier to get. and replace. this was was from his mouth. "i observed both keys in many of the briggs at that time, untouched". id rather it shear off then have a pile of scrap. its just a key. dont fight over it. when u guys tear them apart keep track of them and make a log of it. aluminum vs steel keys you find. he ran a shop for 65 years.
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