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Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)


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  #21  
Old 06-24-2010, 08:39:14 PM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Kent can you tell the actual HP you mentioned about 7 ?

Ronny
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:49:05 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

I have a INTERTEC Service Manuel that list the Model 19 ( 19 CID ) engine as 7.25 HP. The later 19XXXX ( 19 CID ) series of Briggs was called an 8 HP BUT it also turned a higher RPM. The later Briggs 17XXXX ( 17 CID ) series was called 7 HP but it also turned higher RPM than the Model 19. Back when the Model 19 engine was built, there was not much talk of HP. The HP wars was in it's VERY early beginnings in Detroit and had not hit the small engine market like it has today.

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  #23  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:33:44 PM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Boy thanks Kent just wanted this info to put on plaque for the shows. Haven't attempted removing armature. Found a fine thread bolt that threads into end of shaft. Going to drill small hole through bolt length ways then drill a little larger hole part way in and tap for zerts fitting.

Ronny
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  #24  
Old 06-26-2010, 10:00:51 PM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Is there a better way to clean rust out of gas tank ? I put in fuel oil and some fish tank gravel keep sloshing around.

Ronny
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  #25  
Old 08-13-2010, 11:41:51 PM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Update on this engine. i took the gas tank off. removed the sediment bowl took it apart. looked like brown old gas in glass bowl .It was hard like play dough. cleaned it out. Put kerosene and small stone in gas tank sloshed it around by hand for about an hour. did good enough job. put it back together and back on. was going to change the plug what the heck. Was realy worried that inside carb was like sediment bowl but was determined to try it and see if it would run. first pull and it started. gas had been shut off and it was run dry about 15 years ago when it was last run. It runs 3600 RPM continuous governed speed going to try and slow it to an idle using a longer throttle adjustment screw. I may try to put stronger wire spring on the govener to slow it down. Also got to get that Rotor off . it doesn't run with choke fully open need to try and spray cleaner in carb to see if it will run better. Would like to run it slow with the rotor like it is. is ther realy a problem with the weight sticking out on shaft ?

Ronny
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  #26  
Old 08-14-2010, 01:46:25 AM
Ken Karrow Ken Karrow is online now
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

I WOULD not run it with the armature on. Since it is not secured it could very well come off on its own. I know you want if off but imagine a bowling ball running around in your shop at 75 MPH with you and your helper. Even if you did secure it back to the shaft, will stress the PTO bearing and the crankshaft in ways not engineered into the equipment and could possibly break the shaft. Second point, most engines the spring opens the throttle and the governor mechanism closes the throttle and when they balance the throttle opening is determined, hence a stronger spring will increase engine speed. Any one who disagrees please chime in. Ken
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  #27  
Old 08-14-2010, 09:49:16 AM
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Ronny:

The end of the engine's crankshaft is tapered and has a threaded hole in it. When the armature was originally installed, a bolt was put through the hole in the brush end of the armature and screwed into the crankshaft to hold the armature on the taper.

After some time (especially if the engine's been hot a couple of times and the through bolt is really tight), the rotor will become almost as one with the crankshaft.

I think if the engine were mine, I'd find a bolt or piece of all thread long enough to go all the way through the armature and thread into the end of the crankshaft. It should be long enough to stick out an inch or two.

Now, with the bolt screwed as far as it will go into the crankshaft (you don't want to damage the threads in the crank!), give the end a hard belt or two with a heavy hammer straight on the end. If fortune smiles on you, the armature will pop loose of the taper.

Otherwise, you could arrange a puller to push on the end of the bolt and pull on the armature. A lick with a hammer will help convince the armature to come off.

Save the armature and, if the diameter at the crankshaft end of the armature is okay for slipping a pulley over, just cut the shaft off square so about a half inch extends past the end of the crankshaft. Now, you can hold this "pulley adaptor" on the crank with a suitable draw bolt.

If the shaft of the armature isn't of a size that will directly fit a pulley, take it to a shop and have it turned to fit a pulley and cut to length.

Simple, eh? -)

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  #28  
Old 08-14-2010, 10:42:24 AM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

So how do I slow this 7 HP engine to a idle ? When I move the governor lever that has the spring attatched to it down it opens the throttle . I thought a spring that holds governer in slow or idle position would not cause the throttle linkage thats attatched to the rod that is attatched to governor arm woud cause it to run at slower speed.
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  #29  
Old 08-14-2010, 03:13:48 PM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

I tries to adjust fuel and changed adjustment screw on throtle shaft so throttle in carb won't move when governor tries to increase speed and it runs faster than it would with the generator set on it. I was told that carb is jetted for the continuous governed speed I want to idle this engine. Any sugestions that won't cost me an arm and a leg. It will only run at 1/2 choke .

Ronny
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Old 08-14-2010, 03:56:47 PM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Heres a few pics of adjustments on carb and the governer .
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  #31  
Old 08-14-2010, 04:44:14 PM
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Ronny:

Move the spring toward the shaft of the governor to slow the engine down.

Speed is adjusted by spring tension and sensitivity is adjusted by moving the link to the carburetor toward the shaft. You kinda have to twiddle 'em to get what you want.

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  #32  
Old 08-14-2010, 06:43:11 PM
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

You might have to get a lighter spring. That one looks like the spring on my screen door! - Just kidding, but it might have too much tension even on the slowest setting (Closest to the shaft of the governor arm like Elden suggested)
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  #33  
Old 08-14-2010, 09:19:28 PM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

John the spring you see is original . Under load of the rotor and stator with the magnetic field it ran ok . But now it screams.

Ronny

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------

The adjustment under carb the big brass flat screw this adjusts fuel intake am I correct . I turn it in or out it does nothing. Engine will only run on partial choke. The little adjustment on side does nothing either. i want to get this thing to run slow first then get it to run smooth.

Ronny

---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

The adjustment under carb the big brass flat screw this adjusts fuel intake am I correct . I turn it in or out it does nothing. Engine will only run on partial choke. The little adjustment on side does nothing either. i want to get this thing to run slow first then get it to run smooth.

Ronny
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:13:44 PM
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Since it was a generator, it was made to run at 3600 rpm at all times. If you want it to go slower, you will need to find a lighter spring. Try one off of a regular lawnmower. It will probably take a bit of tinkering to get it where you want, but you should be able to slow it down. But, remember this - With no spring at all, all it will do is idle. With no spring to provide resistance, the governor will close the throttle as soon as the engine starts. Try this and if it still wont idle, the governor arm needs to be adjusted on the shaft.
The big adjustment screw (flat) on the bottom of the carb is the high speed fuel needle. If it does nothing and you need 1/2 choke to run, the main jet is clogged. You might be able to remove the screw and shoot some spray carb cleaner in there with the little nozzle tube and clean it out. Might not...
When you put the needle screw back in, tighten LIGHTLY and then back out 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 turns. This should be adequate to get it started.
The small screw on the side of the carb is the idle mixture needle. Start with it about 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 turns open.
If your main (high speed) jet is clogged, it will run through the idle jet, but you will need to use the choke part way. This appears to be what is happening with your engine. If the main jet cant be cleared in the carb, it will have to come out. That is a whole 'nother story. If it gets that far we'll walk you through that one too.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:57:36 PM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Thanks John I only ran the engine a few minutes just to see if i could get it started and if it will run slow . I just want to show it at shown not real old but 42 years old i think is worth showing. But I know it will run got to work on getting that armature off. I agree it's not a good idea to run it like it is. I'm going to try drilling hole in bolt that fits into hole in end of rotor shaft thread for grease fitting and pump it like a jack and whack it like previous post have advised. Then we'll tackle the idle issue. will post how rotor removal goes.

Ronny

---------- Post added at 11:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

If you look at these pics on page one you will see this eng has a braided metal covering over plug wire. It's frayed in two spots quite a job beyond my expertice to replace. Anything I can coat these spots to seal these frayed spots with that will withstand heat ?

Ronny
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:06:50 AM
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

RE: spark plug wire question. Don't worry about it for function, the wire braid covering is for elimination of RF interference only, common on military equipment. If you want to do something for appearance sake, pull the blower cover and compare how the wire is attached to the mag coil (compare to the Wards tiller you discussed awhile back). It will probably be possible to convert to an ordinary metal conductor spark plug wire and regular plug with parts available at your local auto parts store with minimal expense. Ken
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:41:24 PM
Don Naismith Don Naismith is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

The carb on these engines is designed to idle the engine if needed. On your engine, however, the governor is setup to run the engine at high speed. In the 3rd picture you posted, at the top and slightly to the left of the middle is a long rectangular nut. The nut adjusts the speed of the engine.

The long rectangular nut also rests on a metal plate. The metal plate has an extra hole in it. The extra hole is for a throttle cable that could be used to shift the engine from idle to full speed. Your engine / generator combo didn't need a throttle cable, hence the extra unfilled hole. Here's a link to the model 19FB operating instructions. Page 4 shows the throttle cable arrangement. http://www.briggsandstratton.com/pdf...9-Domestic.pdf

That particular carb is one of the easier ones to disassemble and clean. To bad you didn't live close by.

As a side note, if you decide to clean the carb, remember to remove the high speed mixture screw and the two nuts above it first. Then insert a thin screw driver in the hole and unscrew the approximately 2 inch high speed jet before you disassemble the carb. The carb won't come apart until the high speed jet is removed.

The carb kit with gaskets is fairly easy to find. Suspect one of the sponsors on this site or e-bay should have it. I don't have the carb kit part number readily available, however, suspect someone here might be able to provide it.

Google "Service Manual for Out of Production Engines 1919-1981" to find the manual that covers everthing you need to know about overhauling the carb or repairing that particular engine.

As someone mentioned earlier, the ignition coils on these engines were notorious for going bad. The symptoms are that the engine runs for a minute or so at high speed and then stalls out as if it ran out of gas. It's a shame really as the models 14, 19, and 23 were some of the best built B&S cast iron engines in my opinion.

Shameless plug - Here's my B&S model 14FB.


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Old 08-18-2010, 12:58:53 AM
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Looks to be a medium flo-jet carb with three bolt flange. You wont be able to Idle it till you reduce your spring tension. Governor closes throttle and spring opens. Spring tension sets engine speed.

Remove bottom Needle/screw. remove nut. reach in with screwdriver and remove emulsion tube. clean emulsion tube and bore it came from. Don't dis-assemble carb further unless absolutely necessary, as the flange usually will warp and not seal well again.

check this out
http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/..._two_piece.asp

and here
http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:45:26 AM
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

If you must remove the main jet tube, there is a little trick to getting the right tool. A regular screw driver that will fit in the threaded hole will usually have a narrower tip on the end. This will probably be too narrow to get a good bite on the end of the jet tube. You need to find a screw driver with a slightly larger head on it and grind down the sides so that it just fits in the threaded hole without touching the threads. This way the tip of the blade will be wide enough to have a good grip on the jet tube.
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Old 08-19-2010, 09:49:24 PM
ronny p 148 ronny p 148 is offline
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Default Re: Free engine find - (generator shaft removal)

Well finally got a hole drilled in a bolt and threaded it and put a grease fitting in it. Filled with grease and hit armature and it didn't budge. i'm not shure it's a tapered shaft. Going to call a brigs dealer and see if he can pull up a pic of it disassembled. .

Ronny

---------- Post added at 09:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

Don i got it to run but I need to get the armature off don't want to fool with it with it on. I just want to take high speed jet needle out and spray it with carb cleaner. theres two aluminum colored nuts on the adjustment shaft how do you remove just the needle ?

Ronny
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