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LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.


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  #1  
Old 08-04-2010, 08:11:38 PM
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Denis Rouleau Denis Rouleau is offline
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Default LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair Goss View Post
Denis,
London Gas Power & Co. 8hp.

Have you researched the history of London Gas Power, London Concrete Machinery, Scott Machine Company, etc.? That might be a good one for another thread?
I do not have an awful lot about these LONDON based companies but I can tell you that the Scott Machine Company Ltd., London, Ontario were into building gasoline engines sometimes prior to 1908. Also, effective August 1, 1910 the Scott Machine Company Ltd. changed its name to The LONDON Gas Power Company Limited.

Any additional info will me most welcomed here!

Denis Rouleau
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:32:30 AM
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Owen Bosma Owen Bosma is offline
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

I have a upright London engine, and I believe it is a London Gas Power Co. Ltd. engine. No tag but the word London is cast in a arch into the water hopper, as well as on the sump covers. This engine has a cavity cast into the water hopper to accommodate the cylinder oiler same as the Goss engine The serial #392 and hp 2 1/2 is stamped on the water hopper.
My camera is on the fritz as soon I get it back I will forward some pictures.

The first attachment is the repro tag off the Goss engine. The second picture is a scan from the London Concrete Machinery catalog of 1912-1913, it shows the upright on a batch mixer.

........... Owen
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2010, 04:56:51 PM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

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Originally Posted by Owen Bosma View Post
I have a upright London engine, and I believe it is a London Gas Power Co. Ltd. engine. No tag but the word London is cast in a arch into the water hopper........... Owen
The story surrounding the LONDON engines is fairly simple but for some reason, the more the story is told, the more the story changes and the end result is..........more confusion!

I do not have all the facts yet and I'm not the best story teller but I'll have a go at it!

To avoid further confusion we have to know that there are 2 distinct companies, doing business in the same time period and in the same city, namely LONDON, Ontario.

In 1906 or 1907 The Scott Machine Company Ltd began manufacturing their "LONDON" engines in London, Ontario.

Also in 1906 another London, Ontario company was created to manufacture machinery and tools to assist cement and concrete workers with their hard manual work. This other company, completely independent from the Scott Machine Co. was called the "London Concrete Machinery Co. Ltd" and were eventually claiming to be the World's Largest Manufacturers of Concrete machinery and cement working tools.

May I add that The London Concrete Machinery Co. never built any engines. Instead, they bought the engines needed on the machines they built, from various engine builders, prices being one consideration and configuration between their machine and the engine being another.

To add to the confusion, The London Concrete Machinery Co. often called their machinery "LONDON", likewise The Scott Machine Co. called the engines they built the "LONDON".

Early on the London Concrete Machinery Co. machines were sold with Scott Machine engines as a unit and everything was fine as the machine was a LONDON and the engine was a LONDON.

There must have been divergences later on as after a few years, London Concrete Machinery Co., machines were found coupled with Gilson, Bull Dog, Stover etc.....engines.

To confuse things just a step more, in August 1910 The Scott Machine Co. changed its name to "The London Gas Power Co. Ltd. By then the London Gas Power Co. was still building the LONDON engines but The London Concrete Machinery Co. was getting the engines elsewhere.

I think that the name "LONDON" cast in raised letters remained until sometimes in 1913, even long after Scott Machine had become London Gas Power.

If you were not confused before you started reading this, I bet you are now!

Denis Rouleau

Last edited by Denis Rouleau; 08-06-2010 at 10:33:06 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-09-2010, 08:34:03 PM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Thanks Denis. That's some good info to have down in black and white.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:43:56 PM
bocephus_k6 bocephus_k6 is offline
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Dennis is there link up between London Gas & Power and London Concrete Works I believe it is, we have a 3HP Novo that has been retagged as London Concrete Works I think it is..It's London Concrete something or other, just me memory is photographic, and it is outta film....


Brian
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:25:23 PM
Larry Anger Larry Anger is offline
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Denis - Just to add some more confusion to existing confusion on the subject, I have an engine that is Tagged with a heavy cast tag - "Standard Gas Engine" Manfd. By "The London Concrete Machinery Co. Ltd." London Canada. No. 8573 REV. 500 H.P. 3-1/2. In reality this engine is a 3-1/2 HP Brownwall so I don't see how it could be manufactured by The London Concrete Co. Ltd. Also the London concrete mixer business is still active in London Ontario. They were recently bought out by the Oshkosh Corporation but still go by the London machinery Co. name. London concrete mixers have been around for over 100 years. They are a very reputable name in the mobile mixer business.
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:46:55 AM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bocephus_k6 View Post
Denis is there link up between London Gas & Power and London Concrete Works.

Brian
Brian, please check and confirm the correct exact name for the company name you are reffering to.

Denis Rouleau
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:25:15 AM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

The 1912-1913 London Concrete Machinery Co. catalog does feature the Standard gas and gasoline engine, there is no equipment shown with that engine, it does show a diaphram pump with a 1 1/2 hp engine which appears to be a Novo engine.

.......... Owen
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Last edited by Owen Bosma; 08-10-2010 at 10:10:24 AM.
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  #9  
Old 08-10-2010, 10:36:07 AM
bocephus_k6 bocephus_k6 is offline
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Dennis I was wrong on the name on the Novo, it is the London Concrete Machinery Co. and is definately a 3 hp with the kerosene carb on it.

Regards,

Brian
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  #10  
Old 08-13-2010, 07:25:58 PM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Bosma View Post
The 1912-1913 London Concrete Machinery Co. catalog does feature the Standard gas and gasoline engine.
.......... Owen
Hi Owen, your pictures are most interesting to me, not only the little upright BUT the other 2 "STANDARD" horizontal engine. The engine in the first picture is without a doubt a "Jack Canuck" built by the Gilson Mfg. Co. of Guelph, Ontario. The Engine in your 2nd picture is also a Gilson which looks like a Style "G".

Denis Rouleau

---------- Post added at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bocephus_k6 View Post
Denis I was wrong on the name on the Novo, it is the London Concrete Machinery Co.
Brian
Don't feel bad Brian. You are not the only one thinking that a London is in fact a Novo...........not so......... a London is a London and a Novo is a Novo!

Denis Rouleau
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:08:07 PM
Steve Taylor Steve Taylor is offline
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Cylinder block from a Standard Gas Engine
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:17:39 AM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

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Originally Posted by Steve Taylor View Post
Cylinder block from a Standard Gas Engine
Steve, is this cylinder/hopper and tag all is left of the engine or do you have the whole engine? This particular one was built by Gilson, I think.

Denis Rouleau
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:27:23 AM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Here's a Brownwall or Holland with their tag on it.
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:12:39 PM
Steve Taylor Steve Taylor is offline
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Denis;

That and the piston is all that I have; picked it up at an auction.
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Old 08-23-2015, 06:11:02 PM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

I had this engine out this weekend bought it about 6 years ago I think it was the first time I had it out .had it for sale some still think there a novo
this one has a early ser number 171 and there is only one fuel hole not like the other 3 londons or novo's I have had witch has one on each side and there is no fuel drain

the filler hole is half the size and next to the fuel lines

and like any other London the timing gears are finer this one doesn't have grease cup on the crank there oil troughs

one can see that it was used on a London concrete mixer I had a 1918 novo with a concrete tag but not as old as this
it's a 2 1/2 hp
had to all most plug the carb hole right off running it slow as it would drip ran it 8 plus hours

not sure think it's around 1914
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Last edited by Brian.P; 08-23-2015 at 06:39:25 PM.
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Old 09-02-2015, 01:20:15 AM
George piper George piper is offline
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Rouleau View Post
I do not have an awful lot about these LONDON based companies but I can tell you that the Scott Machine Company Ltd., London, Ontario were into building gasoline engines sometimes prior to 1908. Also, effective August 1, 1910 the Scott Machine Company Ltd. changed its name to The LONDON Gas Power Company Limited.

Any additional info will me most welcomed here!

Denis Rouleau
I have a London mortar mixer powered with a Novo Motor. would like more info and any photos anyone may have.
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Old 09-02-2015, 04:26:18 PM
Len Spoelman Len Spoelman is offline
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Does this engine differ from the early Hildreth and Olds vertical? Carb looks the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.P View Post
I had this engine out this weekend bought it about 6 years ago I think it was the first time I had it out .had it for sale some still think there a novo
this one has a early ser number 171 and there is only one fuel hole not like the other 3 londons or novo's I have had witch has one on each side and there is no fuel drain

the filler hole is half the size and next to the fuel lines

and like any other London the timing gears are finer this one doesn't have grease cup on the crank there oil troughs

one can see that it was used on a London concrete mixer I had a 1918 novo with a concrete tag but not as old as this
it's a 2 1/2 hp
had to all most plug the carb hole right off running it slow as it would drip ran it 8 plus hours

not sure think it's around 1914
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Old 05-02-2019, 04:46:45 PM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

Novo/London 1-1/2 hp
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:36:35 AM
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Default Re: LONDON Engines built by London Gas Power & Co., Ltd.

https://archive.org/details/LondonCo...ryCoCatNoNT427
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