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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History


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  #1  
Old 05-10-2019, 01:47:44 AM
MFaris MFaris is offline
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Default Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

There has never been much in the way of concrete history or info published about C&D or the existing engines. I've always found that unfortunate so I started digging. At first I thought Cavanaugh might be the William Cavanaugh from the Pacific Gas Engine Company of San Fransisco, he was not (I was really hoping for a California connection). The actual people were much harder to track down, but I found them!

Edmond Cavanaugh and William Darley were both born in the year 1877 in Illinois, and when the 1900 Census was taken Edmond was listed as a gas machine salesman and William a machine maker. In 1901 at the ages of 24 they founded the Cavanaugh & Darley Gas Engine Company, located at 30 West Randolph, Chicago Illinois; this was also listed as William's place of residence. In late 1904 or early 1905 the pair moved their operation to a larger location at #25 Plymouth Court, Chicago Illinois. They were listed at this location in 1906 but were gone by 1907. In 1908 William S. Darley founded a company that specialized in fire fighting equipment which is still in business and Darley family run to this day. Edmond Cavanaugh vanished from the records after 1906 and couldn't be found in the 1910 census, perhaps he passed away...?... That might explain C&D shutting down in 1906.

The C&D Red Devil style of vertical sideshaft was sold under four different names between 1901 and 1911:

Cavanaugh and Darley, Red Devil 1901 - 1906

National Engine Co., Winnebago Chief 1902 - 1904

Montgomery Ward, Little Giant 1905 - 1911(?)

Earl Machine Works 1907, (Pg 143 of the BYB) may have no relation to C&D but they have very similar lines.

There were two distinct styles of C&D engines, the early 1901 style with the shaft mounted vertical flyball governor and the later style with the integral cam governor. The Montgomery Ward engines differ from all the others in the placement of the external fuel tank and fluted base. Now most advertising shows the flyball governor style engine until 1905, I believe however this was for cost savings in advertising and didn't actually represent the engines sold at the time. The reason I say this is due to the serial numbers of existing engines (see list below), mine is #380, which I think is the 80th engine built in 1903.
Now #146 in California makes me doubt this theory a bit, however until we get a C&D style engine with a two digit serial number I'm going to stand by it.

My theory is that C&D manufactured and sold the Red Devil style engine in house starting in 1901, and later sold the rights and patterns in late 06 or early 07 to an unknown 3rd party who continued to supply Montgomery Ward. Sometime around 1908/09 they changed the design slightly by mounting the fuel tank on the back of the cylinder and fluting the base. This style only appeared in advertising after C&D ceased to exist, and it was only ever with the Montgomery Ward name.

From what I've seen the later M.W. engines (fluted base models) have a different serial number structure from C&D, two digits rather than three. I would like to start another Smokstak registry to collect serial numbers from all known Cavanaugh & Darley, and Montgomery Ward "Red Devil" style engines; I suspect the engines sold by National will be in the C&D SN catchment. With enough numbers my theories will either be proven correct or squashed! My prediction is that all engines with the fluted base will be two digit SN's and there will be no C&D numbers starting with the number 7 or maybe even 6. As far as I know no engines with the flyball governor exist. If one does it'll be the key to confirming my theory for dating the engines.


Over the next few days I will add advertising that helps support my claims.

Please comment or PM me with thoughts, SN's, or pictures!


Cavanaugh & Darley:

SN 146 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - California
SN 253 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - Wisconsin
SN 364 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - Oregon
SN 380 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - British Columbia

Montgomery Ward:

SN 47 - 4hp - Cam mounted governor - Michigan

Last edited by MFaris; 05-14-2019 at 10:25:23 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2019, 07:23:51 AM
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Denis Rouleau Denis Rouleau is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Here is a 1904 Cavanaugh & Darley ad.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:39:56 AM
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

A couple of more ads & GEM article:
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:55:32 AM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

My C&D vertical is on loan right now, don't have the # handy. It has the governor in the cam, mixer at the base. Tommy, if you see this you can post the #.
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:18:19 AM
MFaris MFaris is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

I was asked via PM where the serial number is located on these engines, the ones I've seen have been stamped on the head near the water inlet.



---------- Post added at 08:18:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58:52 AM ----------

Here are the 3 engine styles for comparison:

Style 1, Flyball governor-



Style 2, Integral cam governor-



Style 3, Montgomery Ward-




Styles 1 and 2 were sold or at least advertised under all three names at different times. Style 3 was only ever marketed under the Montgomery name and that was after C&D ceased to exist.

I reached out to the Darley family in Hope they may have additional info, they did not. All they knew was their grandfather co-founded the company prior to founding the current business. The family would really like to acquire a C&D engine, so if anyone wants to sell one PM me and I'll put you in touch with them.
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:19:28 PM
MFaris MFaris is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

A couple of ads from 1904





Cavanaugh & Darley was also an agent for Witte engines, that would explain the claim of "Engines 1 to 40 HP". And the statement " We also have for sale complete patterns for 2.5 - 3hp, 4 cycle, upright stationary engine" might explain other very similar engines such as the Earl.

---------- Post added at 10:49:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33:04 AM ----------

1911 Montgomery Ward ad:




I think we'll find these engines are actually rarer than the C&D version.

---------- Post added at 11:19:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49:52 AM ----------

1910 Montgomery Ward ad:

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Old 05-10-2019, 08:58:18 PM
Don Selmer Don Selmer is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Serial #253

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Old 05-12-2019, 11:18:20 AM
Bill Prine Bill Prine is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Here is #364 in Oregon.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:37:25 PM
Bob Lobdill Bob Lobdill is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

I have #146 it's in pieces I will get a picture when it is running.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:11:14 AM
LCJudge LCJudge is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

JB, I'll check and see what the SN's are on the 2 sitting here at the house.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:18:21 AM
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lobdill View Post
I have #146 it's in pieces I will get a picture when it is running.
Bob, does your engine have the fuel tank mounted on the cylinder like the one in the attached photo?
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:04:02 AM
MFaris MFaris is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCJudge View Post
Bob, does your engine have the fuel tank mounted on the cylinder like the one in the attached photo?
If the fuel tank isn't mounted to the cylinder, what kind of governor does the engine have?
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:34:17 AM
Bob Lobdill Bob Lobdill is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Hi it has the fuel tank in the base, the governor is in the cam housing.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:05:05 AM
MFaris MFaris is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

I'm starting to wonder if C&D really built more than just a handful of the flyball governor style engines before moving on to the integral cam governor.

It would be really nice to get some more numbers from the Montgomery Ward style engines...
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:50:33 AM
Steve Royster Steve Royster is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Number 453 Here in North Carolina
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:08:56 AM
MFaris MFaris is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Quote:
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Number 453 Here in North Carolina
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Does it have the base mounted fuel tank and integral cam governor?
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:23:33 PM
Steve Royster Steve Royster is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Yes it does. I'll get pics soon.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:55:43 PM
MFaris MFaris is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Here is a picture the Darley family just sent me, this is William Darley at 29 (right at the end of Cavanaugh & Darley), apparently he grew the beard in an attempt to look older.



I'm sure 29 year old William would be shocked that 113 years later some of his engines are still running; and that people recognize his involvement.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:02:24 AM
holzy holzy is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Hi, I'm from Australia & I have a fly ball governed red devil engine, I'll post the engine number & picks in a week or so.
I've been searching for a ignitor for a number of years now, hoping someone might be able to cast me one up.
After this awesome read - I know a lot more about these engines. My engine has the fuel tank in the base (not cast in the base - must be a seperet tank in the base).
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:34:51 PM
MFaris MFaris is offline
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Default Re: Cavanaugh & Darley Registry and History

Here's an updated C&D list as of today, it's becoming apparent that they employed a very good West coast salesman!

Cavanaugh & Darley:

SN 146 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - California
SN 253 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - Wisconsin
SN 281 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - Oregon
SN 333 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - Oregon
SN 364 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - Oregon
SN 380 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - British Columbia
SN 453 - 2.5hp - Cam mounted governor - North Carolina
SN ??? - 2.5hp - Oregon
SN ??? - 2.5hp - Australia - Cam mounted governor and homemade flyball governor
SN ??? - 2.5hp - Australia
SN ??? - 2.5hp - Australia

Montgomery Ward:

SN 47 - 4hp - Cam mounted governor - Michigan

Last edited by MFaris; 07-29-2019 at 11:22:21 PM.
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