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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum


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  #41  
Old 02-29-2008, 09:45:57 PM
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Wayne A Thackery Wayne A Thackery is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Kevin, do you happen to have what these engines sold for at the auction in 1985? If not and anyone would like to know I have the sheet with the results of the auction.
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  #42  
Old 02-29-2008, 10:33:38 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Wayne. I only have a few prices that I wrote down. I didnt pay the $5.00 to get the price sheet . another one of them things I should have done different. I wouldnt mind having a copy if you wouldnt mind doing it. The reason I would like to see it is because if I remember right there were some items added after the catalog came out and would like to confirm that. Keven
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  #43  
Old 02-29-2008, 10:33:40 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Wayne, I had all those prices here pre tornado days but I don't have them now. Based on memory though the Schlicher Schumm Otto (the one that is now at Coolspring in the Susong Bldg) brought around $36,000. The side crank slide valve that's now at Jeff Hutchins sold for around $10K. This was also the sale where Greg Johnson bought his Deutz slide valve. He gave around $18,500 for it I think. These prices are just from memory. Why did we all stand around with our hands in our pockets? That was a different day and time. Plus, while the prices seem very cheap today, If I had taken what the Susong Otto brought, $36K, and placed it in a tax free investment in '85 and it simply had gained at market rates and compounded annually it would now be worth $235,000. I guess everything is relative.
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  #44  
Old 02-29-2008, 11:36:55 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

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Originally Posted by Lcjudge View Post
Wayne, I had all those prices here pre tornado days but I don't have them now. Based on memory though the Schlicher Schumm Otto (the one that is now at Coolspring in the Susong Bldg) brought around $36,000. The side crank slide valve that's now at Jeff Hutchins sold for around $10K. This was also the sale where Greg Johnson bought his Deutz slide valve. He gave around $18,500 for it I think. These prices are just from memory. Why did we all stand around with our hands in our pockets? That was a different day and time. Plus, while the prices seem very cheap today, If I had taken what the Susong Otto brought, $36K, and placed it in a tax free investment in '85 and it simply had gained at market rates and compounded annually it would now be worth $235,000. I guess everything is relative.
Tommy, I don't think it would have been as much fun playing with a tax free investment over the slide valve!
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  #45  
Old 03-01-2008, 05:00:43 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lcjudge View Post
Wayne, I had all those prices here pre tornado days but I don't have them now. Based on memory though the Schlicher Schumm Otto (the one that is now at Coolspring in the Susong Bldg) brought around $36,000. The side crank slide valve that's now at Jeff Hutchins sold for around $10K. This was also the sale where Greg Johnson bought his Deutz slide valve. He gave around $18,500 for it I think. These prices are just from memory. Why did we all stand around with our hands in our pockets? That was a different day and time. Plus, while the prices seem very cheap today, If I had taken what the Susong Otto brought, $36K, and placed it in a tax free investment in '85 and it simply had gained at market rates and compounded annually it would now be worth $235,000. I guess everything is relative.
But, at the time it was a HOLE LOTTA MONEY! I know a few people that said it was a lot of money to buy these items then, but they are glad they did it. But looking at it it now, it would have been a wise investment, which are all rare items, antiques or not. Yeah, not much more than other monetary investments are or can be. And then again, how many investments make you feel proud to proliferate the hobby that others enjoy? In that respect it is a much wiser investment than other things. These are investments in life that the masses can enjoy. I take my hat off to the individuals that had the insight to purchase items at this auction, so others could enjoy the fruits of their labor. Cheap as they were at the time ( I would have bought some stuff if I was of age to do so) I'm sure all would say it was worth their investment! I know I would feel honored to own any one of these items so others can enjoy them. And I feel honored to know some of the fine people that have owned, or currently own some of the pieces from the Henry Ford Collection. They deserve a big THUMBS UP!!!!
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  #46  
Old 03-01-2008, 11:17:34 AM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

$36,000 just seems like a dirt cheap deal for a Schlicher Schumm now days!
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  #47  
Old 03-01-2008, 11:30:56 AM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Wayne, exactly right! That's what I tell my wife all the time! I'd much rather be playing with a hunk of iron than looking at an investment spread sheet. I've done both and can tell you I get excited by one, bored with the other (well, that is as long as the stock market doesn't take a big hit!). Tanner, you're right, looking back $36K seems cheap. But at the time it was top of the market and was probably the highest priced internal combustion engine ever sold.
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  #48  
Old 03-01-2008, 11:32:20 AM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

The Schlicher Schumm slide valve Otto at auction these days would probably go for more than the tax free investment of 235,000.00 that Tommy described. If I were rich and had the money and one showed up for auction I would shell out whatever it took to get it. May have to bid against Jay Leno so who knows how high one would go.
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  #49  
Old 03-01-2008, 11:52:15 AM
Marty Riffle Marty Riffle is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Tommy What I remember Cal Gave $49000 Robert's 1/2 hp $4500 Mac gave $8000 For the inverted and $6500 for the piano base. Marty
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  #50  
Old 03-01-2008, 11:57:20 AM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

According to the sales results the Schlicher Schumm sold for $38,000 and the Deutz that Greg bought sold for $19,000. Tommy you were close from what you remembered. I would venture to say that you could not touch either one of these for $235,000 today. I know Greg has been offered more than that for his engine and there is another side crank Crossley that the owner was offer more than that for. Both of these did not change hands. Boy's, if you're looking for a Slide Valve.........step up or step back.......like everything else these days......it just takes money!
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  #51  
Old 03-01-2008, 12:51:24 PM
Don Selmer Don Selmer is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Wayne, Do you know what the 2 h.p. Inverted PIERCE engine sold for ? I know the engine was stuck. Thanks, Don
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  #52  
Old 03-01-2008, 01:00:35 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Don, do you have a lot number? I don't see anything listing for an inverted Pierce. Maybe Kevin can help out with the lot number.
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  #53  
Old 03-01-2008, 01:16:33 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Wayne,
Yes, its hard to say what things would bring. I was a bit surprised at what the Atmospheric brought that sold 3 or 4 years ago in Europe at auction as it didn't bring as much as I thought it would. The Atmospheric is the premier of all engines in my view, worth considerably more than slide valve 4 cycle and others. I've attached a photo of it from the auction sale bill.
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  #54  
Old 03-01-2008, 01:24:16 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Tommy, can you share what the Atmospheric in Europe sold for? I would agree that it would be my drug of choice given the opportunity!
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:27:27 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Again, like the other prices I quoted, this is from memory. I think it was around $165,000 US dollars. BTW, the pre auction estimate by the auction company was $4000.
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:34:19 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Tommy, I agree it is the Holy Grail of engines. The Otto Langen engine that was sold in Germany was very poorly advertized. I know of many people that would have bid the price much higher if collectors found out about it via the internet or GEM. It was advertized in a flyer amongst things like antique typewriters and dollhouses. I found out about it from a collector who buys and sells crocks. He told me an O & L was going up for Auction and I said "sure one is", thinking for sure I would have heard about it from someone if were true. I placed a small wager (lunch) that we was out of his mind - sure enough, the next day he brought in the auction flyer. I was amazed but glad to repay the meal I owed him.
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  #57  
Old 03-01-2008, 04:07:04 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

My favorite slide valve OTTO would be the late Nate Lillibridges engine. American made, Very nice proportioned wide faced flywheel, OTTO cast on the cylinder, and a great history. Were any OTTO atmospheric engines built by Schlicher Schumm? I thought I have seen a photo of a large one at a museum-maybe not.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:10:13 PM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Hi Guys,

There are alot of Waynes on this thread - it is going to get confusing.

The atmospheric sold in Germany was €198,000. At the time the Euro and US currency were 1:1. Not aware of the sale costs on top.

I understand that you all think the price was low, but I can tell you that several serious German collectors were bidding - the condition of the engine stopped them from pushing the price up any further.

The engine at some point has taken a fall. Which caused the top frame to be badly damaged - it is now welded. At this time a new flywheel was fitted. But the worst of it is the head has completely sheered off from the bottom part of the cylinder. Leaving only the top of the water jacket holding the 2 parts together.

I have seen the engine run and as soon as it warms up, the expansion causes the 2 parts of the cylinder to separate, out of alignment - which then jams the piston. Considering the damage on the engine, I think it was a fair price paid.

Tommy, the picture you post is actually of the 1/4 hp in Aachen, Germany........it also has had a fall........and I can identify the engine by its replacement donut rim. Not to mention this is the one we stripped and made the four full scale replicas of.

Wayne.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:16:37 PM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Hey guys, you might think the slidevalves are good, as far as I am concerned you can keep them.......but

Does anyone know the whereabouts of the engine in the picture ???????

I am happy to pay a finders fee for any information which leads to this engine becoming part of my collection - I'll make it worth your while !!!!!!
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:21:31 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Wayne (Timms),
I was thinking that was the photo from the flyer but I have so many photos I may have pulled off the wrong one. I didn't realize the engine was in the shape you describe. Sounds like the price wasn't as much of a "deal" as I thought. I've posted some comments regarding an Atmospheric located here in the US that Wayne (G) asked about in the thread "Where is engine #1". BTW Wayne (T), I need to give you a call sometime. Thanks!
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