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Antique Gas Engine Discussion

Stover KA odd cam/timing issue


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  #1  
Old 06-07-2013, 09:20:03 PM
con-rad con-rad is offline
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Default Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

Hey all. i'm working on getting my little Stover running. after i timed the mag and put a new trip finger on, i went about timing the exhaust valve. i came across a problem though.

if i set it so the rocker arm just starts to touch the valve at 35 degrees before BDC, as i turn the engine around the valve just closes around 13 degrees BEFORE top dead center.

the best outcome i can get is valve opening at 50 before BDC and closing 3 before TDC...

what could be wrong? it seems like the cam isn't the right shape or something! to me it looks like it doesn't hold the valve open long enough. visually it looks OK. i couldn't find any timing marks on the gears so i couldn't verify timing between the crank and cam gear.

thanks!

conrad
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:47:41 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

The first and second figures don't seem to add up correctly. Open 35 before, close 13 before, next open 50 before, close 3 before. Should that be open 5 before? I've seen some of the early engines open at BDC, close at TDC, they run fine, HP would be down compared to a more ideal opening..
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:49:40 PM
con-rad con-rad is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

I just sat down and did some math. it seems like the degrees of flywheel rotation between opening and closing the valve is similar between my two cases and also the proper valve adjustment. so i suppose the cam gear is mis-timed. makes sense, because i believe the previous owner had the gear taken off. how should i time it properly? unless grease it covering it i can't see any timing dots.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:54:00 PM
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Dick Graybill Dick Graybill is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

I wouldn't worry about valve timing opening 35 degree before BDC. Just set valve timing so it is closed just @ or after TDC. Then set spark timing. I believe mine had 2 teeth beveled on one and 1 beveled on the other. Don't remember which was which.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:17:20 PM
con-rad con-rad is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

JB, yea, the numbers don't add up, but the paper protractor print out and sharpie marks on the flywheel are +- a couple degrees! also i should note that proper timing is valve opening 35 degrees before BDC and 5 degrees after TDC.

---------- Post added at 10:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

dick g, i tried setting it so that the valve closed at TDC but then during the intake (i think) stroke the valve was being held open just barely. if i backed the adjustment nut off so the rocker just barely had some wiggle during that stroke, that's how i achieved my best case scenario of 50 before bottom/3 before top.

i just looked at the gears and i can't seem to find beveled gear teeth either! tomorrow i'll clean the gears better to see if i'm missing something.

conrad
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:42:36 AM
Jeff P Smith Jeff P Smith is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

Hey con-rad. Silly question I know, but are you running into the same problem Zira had with a missing woodruff key? Later, Jeff
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:17:08 AM
con-rad con-rad is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

are you talking about a gib key for the flywheel or a key that keeps the cam on the shaft?

i'll see if the cam has play on the shaft today and also see if i can find a stupid timing mark. but it's saturday, need to have coffee and homemade scones first!

conrad
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:29:32 PM
con-rad con-rad is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

messed with it today and found both dots and beveled teeth on the cam gear, and i *think* i found a dot on the crank gear. they seem to mesh properly. however, i can wiggle the cam gear back and forth a little, the teeth move maybe 1/16" one way or the other.

i wouldn't think this would cause it to be out of time, but perhaps the key that the gear is on is partly sheared causing the wiggle and out of time condition?

conrad
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:19:04 PM
Zira Zira is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

Just fyi, I had two dots on the one gear but no beveled tooth or anything on the other. I was able to get the valve timing right after a couple tries.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:19:41 AM
con-rad con-rad is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

sounds good enough for me. can i remove and adjust the cam gear just by taking off the large nut that holds it on and moving it one way or the other? given by current timing, which way should i try turning the gear?

thanks

conrad
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:11:51 AM
Joe McClelland Joe McClelland is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

Hi Conrad ,i have a stover KA that was on a well pump and it runs in the opposite direction to all the other ones i have had or known ,the engine never had much use it was only there incase it was needed to take over from the wind mill it has arrows to show the direction stamped on the flywheels , runs backwards
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:21:22 PM
Zira Zira is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

Conrad -

The gear is keyed to the shaft. I took off the 2 nuts that hold the whole cam/governor assembly and pulled that out (but not all the way off the 2 studs) and rotated the gear. That seemed to be the easiest way.

Zira
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:19:27 PM
con-rad con-rad is offline
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Default Re: Stover KA odd cam/timing issue

i ended up removing the gear nut and pulling the gear off. the timing is good now, it was one tooth off!

for anyone else with this problem, it helps to rotate the engine around and manually operate the latch-out to keep the pushrod out of the way.

thanks for all the help.

conrad
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