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4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue


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  #1  
Old 05-15-2009, 05:39:19 PM
mcarbaugh mcarbaugh is offline
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Default 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Howdy,

I have a 4.0CCK 3CE/2236V ser A850742743 genset.

I just got done rebuilding this small tank and I have a few questions...

1. The timing is varying 2 degrees from 18 to 20 consistently. I can not figure out what might be the issue. There was virtually no backlash in the crank to cam gear. Does not matter if there is a load of not.

2. I bought an electronic ignition from ebay that is home made but I can not get it to work. I sent several email to the fellow but no response. Instructions were strait forward. 3 wires you cant go wrong...

3. Can anyone tell me what year this was born?

4. The left cylinder is running hot plug has white spots... it this timing related.

The engine has 2 hours on it broke in as discribed in the manual. This was a full rebuild. I went so far as to bead blast everything! Looks new. It is running well I don't have a tack but the Cycles Hz is varying +/- .40.

Thanks in advance,
Mark
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  #2  
Old 05-15-2009, 06:00:18 PM
VaughnSimon VaughnSimon is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

We had a member do a pretty in-depth study of that CCK irregular timing issue and concluded that it is just the nature of the beast. Like me, he installed a Pertronics ignition on his CCK and that solved the issue.

There are good reasons to go to the trouble and expense of installing a Pertronics ignition, but solving the built-in +/- 1 or 2 degrees of timing slop is probably not one of them. I really doubt that it makes much difference.

The Pertronics conversion is a bit of an engineering challenge. You must install a magnet on some rotating surface of the engine, and then mount a pickup, which is wired in place of the points. In my case, I saw no reason to remove the old points box, but installed a switch so I can choose between the electronic ignition and the points. I can switch back and forth with the engine running and see NO difference, except that I no longer need to worry about dirty points leaving me in the dark.

Vaughn
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:09:22 PM
mcarbaugh mcarbaugh is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Any thoughts on my other questions?
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:21:39 PM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

it looks like it was built in January of 1985 to me
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:51:44 PM
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Billy J Shafer Billy J Shafer is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Check your point rod. If it is one of the plastic ones it may be worn to one side. This will cause the timing to change.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:20:17 PM
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Billy
Are there metal points pushrods? How're you doin' man?
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:48:48 PM
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

They made some with metal just can't remember which ones. But the plastic ones will wear to one side changing your timing. Doing ok just starting to fall apart. Was back in the hospital last week for two days. Had a mild heart attack last monday night. Think I may just get an icebox and set it on the front porch. So I can drink and rock all day.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:55:12 PM
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Talking Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Just make sure you got a Laptop next to the rocker, Billy..... We still need your expertise, and knowledge....
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Bruce in alaska
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:59:38 PM
mcarbaugh mcarbaugh is offline
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Default 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

I have the plastic rod. Any idea what the part number for the metel rod is and where I can get one?

Tall box...
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:04:40 PM
David W. David W. is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

A Fella on here, goes by OnanParts, should be able to tell you that part number - and maybe where you can get one. In the meantime, if you're comfortable buying on e-bay - I'm very comfortable there - keep and eye looking that way for an entire points box, including the rod.

Good luck.
David W.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:20:27 PM
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Sorry the tall box only came with the plastic point rod. I have had good luck at fileing them back into shape.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:26:11 PM
mcarbaugh mcarbaugh is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

There is very little ware on the rod. The ends look good. there is a shiny area in the side of the rod at the top and bottom where it rubs against the guide but it did not fell like is was worn to much.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:59:49 AM
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy J Shafer View Post
They made some with metal just can't remember which ones. But the plastic ones will wear to one side changing your timing. Doing ok just starting to fall apart. Was back in the hospital last week for two days. Had a mild heart attack last monday night. Think I may just get an icebox and set it on the front porch. So I can drink and rock all day.

Do it, Billy. DO IT!
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:14:08 AM
mcarbaugh mcarbaugh is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Where would the damage be?
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:24:11 PM
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Look on the bottom and the top. On the bottom it should be flat but they will slope to one side. All you have to do is flatten out the bottom a little. On top sometimes the points will wear a grove in the top. You can sand it down flat.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:10:55 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Could you make a new one from some brass shafting?

Kent
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:19:04 AM
jwrape jwrape is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

I'm not sure if you 4.0kw is set up like my 6.5kw, but if so you could easily convert to electronic ignition my with Onan OE parts.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50493

I first tried that Ebay electronic ignition thingy and burnt it up as soon as I started it, it was really a waste of money and I sent it back to the guy for a refund. That thing is more of a Points helper than electronic ignition.

I'm not sure about everyone else but I have another account as well as mine, but the electronic ignition really cleans up the timing and makes the GenSet run like a top. It even stopped smoking now that it's running smoother
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:07:41 PM
mcarbaugh mcarbaugh is offline
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Can you tell me how the ebay part is to me hooked up? I did it like the directions said but I can not get a spark. Thanks for the link.
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:44:41 AM
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

I forget now, but I remember I hooked it up as the directions said and then it didn't work. I think it was Red to 12v+, Black to ground and the White to the points connection.....
After it didn't work I emailed the guy and told him and he said that it must have burnt up and that he has sold dozens of them without a problem but he will refund my money. I'm not convinced they work at all.

Basically all it is a large condensor that is "supposed to" imporve the spark to where your points won't wear out every year. The guy said that when it works correctly it intensifies the spark and in turn it makes the points not get corroded and makes them last longer than a season... Still not as good as the EI and not worth $50... Just my opinion.
The EI will last forever and you won't have to mess with it again..

It costs $250 for the EI, well worth the money.......
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:17:17 PM
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Default Re: 4.0 CCK 3CE/2236V Timing issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarbaugh View Post
I have a 4.0CCK 3CE/2236V ser A850742743 genset.

1. The timing is varying 2 degrees from 18 to 20 consistently. I can not figure out what might be the issue. There was virtually no backlash in the crank to cam gear. Does not matter if there is a load of not.
My 1978 4.0 BFA had 4-5° timing variance between the two cylinders when on points. I converted it to electronic ignition using a Pertronix SB Chevy kit, and the timing is dead-steady now on both cylinders. I trigger off a magnet I put in the flywheel, so no valve train or plunger variables

The BFA has two timing marks @ 21° & 25°, presumably for gasoline vs dry fuels. (click on image for larger)



Picture using timing light (on running engine) of timing "before":


Picture using timing light of timing "after" conversion to Pertronix:


Full story on how I did it is here.
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