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Help with 5hp bessemer


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  #1  
Old 09-13-2009, 08:11:31 PM
HVFD FireFighter HVFD FireFighter is offline
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Default Help with 5hp bessemer

Not sure if this will work. Here is a video i posted on youtube. I cant seem to get this engine running. It will fire once but that is it. What am I doing wrong?

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  #2  
Old 09-13-2009, 08:19:29 PM
HVFD FireFighter HVFD FireFighter is offline
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

COOL! The video actually worked. I am using 1/2" pipe to intake of engine (actual size on engine port) 6-8 oz from propane tank. Accumulator is an old fir extinguisher 6" circumfrence by 18-20" tall with 1" pipe tee on top. 3/8" hose from regulator goesinto tee and 1/2" comes out of tee to engine. hot tube is cherry red. air intake is clear. Intake valve moves freely up and down. i adjusted the nuts and loosend the spring because it was not moving, now it moves pretty well when turning the flywheels.

If anyone can give me pointers on what I am doing wrong, I would greatly appreciated it.
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  #3  
Old 09-13-2009, 08:35:45 PM
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Mike Monnier Mike Monnier is offline
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

I think you partially answered your own question in the video. A ball valve opens even faster than a diamond valve just due to the geometry of the valve. The fact that it fires again after you shut the gas off indicates to me that you are flooding the engine. It's going to be hard to get repeatable results with your ball valve, but try starting somewhere around 1/4 to 1/2 travel open. In other words, no more than 1/8 turn of the handle. The problem with propane is that you don't get that tell-tale black smoke when it's flooded like you do with gasoline. Instead, you just get a lot of exercise. Also, you state the tube is cherry red. If it's just at the heat source, that's okay. If it's the entire tube, then that's way too hot. Try choking off some of the air holes in the burner to control the flame better.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:01:49 AM
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

On any of my engines that run on propane I must also meter the amount of air that is being sucked in. The reasoning behind this is when your just pulling the engine thru slowly to start it the air/fuel mixture is richer. Then when the engine fires that next intake suction is much greater, due to the speed of the stroke. Resulting in a fuel mix which is more air than gas..... i.e. not flammable. I'm almost positive that your regulator is just fine. But you need to put a diamond valve on the air intake side as well to restrict the air intake. On my Reid engine I have to shut the air down to about only 10% to 15% open. Once my engine is running I then can turn the diamond valve for the fuel down to about 3/8" open or less. I'm also using a BBQ style propane regulator.

Propane can be tricky to figure out just what YOUR engine wants to run. Every engine is a little different.

Also think of it this way. The propane is being emitted in a constant amount, no matter what your engine is doing. The air intake is only dependent on the speed of the intake stroke if its not restricted. You can see where I'm going with this The faster the engine runs the amount of air is going to multiply, while the gas intake stays constant.

Your REALLY close to getting it just right.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:53:51 AM
HVFD FireFighter HVFD FireFighter is offline
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Thanks for the help guys.

The air intake must be an 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" pipe under the belly of the engine (I haven't actually measured it). I am not sure how I would put a valve there that would be accessible without an excessive run of pipe which would hinder the suction ability right?

The hot tube is only red at the bottom.

I will be putting a diamond valve on as soon as I can find one. The intake port on the engine is 1/2" and the accumulator output is 1/2" so I will be needing a 1/2" valve correct? I could make the accumulator output bigger but then i would just half to reduce it back down the 1/2" to fit the engine port. So I am thinking 1/2" is good?

Have you all seen the accumulator? it is an old fire extinguisher (I am a firefighter and can get these pretty easily that are out of service) I have a tee on the top of the tank, inlet on one side, outlet on the other side, tank on the bottom. Will this work? Or does the intake and output need to be located on different parts of the tank ( I would have to drill, weld, and put a fitting on)

Thanks for all the help so far. I believe I am getting closer to seeing her run. I can't wait!!
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:59:00 AM
HVFD FireFighter HVFD FireFighter is offline
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

I cant believe I am saying this BUT does the "size and length" of the exhaust effect how the engine will run? Currently, the pipe is 2" It comes directly out of the bottom of the engine, I put an elbow and an 8" run to another elbow and a 12" run. Eventually I will chrome this (I think)
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:22:44 AM
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

The size of the exhaust doesnt matter.

Since the air intake is 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" you can see why you need to put a diamond valve there. You wont need to put a extensive series of pipe there either. Just a single reducer from 1 1/2" "or what ever size it turns out to be" down to 1/2"

When this was a working engine the air intake was not restriced at all. BUT, it would have had about 10 times the ammount of fuel to eat too. And woudnt run nice and slow and smooth like a show engine should
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:52:48 AM
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Thanks Doug,

So if I reduce the air intake from 1 1/4" down to 1/2" should I still put a 1/2" valve on it? Or should I just leave it as 1 1/4" with an 1 1/4" valve? (either way I would move it to an accessible spot probably on side of engine)

So if I regulate the air intake down and regulate the propane intake, with a little fine tuning of both valves, the engine should work.

smaller air to gas (choke) more air to gas, (run)?

As you can see, I am not a mechanic!!
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:42:14 PM
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Well, a 1/2" valve will be cheaper. With two 90's and just a little pipe you could plumb it under the cyl. which is near where your fuel valve is anyway. So you dont have to run from one side of the engine to the other.

Lets see a YouTube video of that little Bessy puffin along at 50 RPM!
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:12:26 PM
FArmstrong FArmstrong is offline
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

my two cents...
leave the air intake and accumulator alone. You're flooding the engine and need to reduce the volume of gas through the valve.
Try just barely cracking the valve.
Great looking engine, you are soooooo close!
Fred
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:29:52 PM
krapie krapie is offline
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

My experiences running my 5hp Besssemer, your flooding it. If you turn the gas off, pull thru compression a few times then it hits, you are flooded.

I will try to get a picture later, but here is my setup; gas grill regulator attached to the lp tank, 10' hose to the ball valve. I install 2 valves, one ball valve as a quick on/off, then a diamond valve for adjusting the gas just prior to the carb. Once I have the diamond valve set, remove the handle so it does not get tampered with as these 5hp engines are very sensative to any change in the opening. Much more than my 10hp or 15hp Bessemers.

As Armstrong mentiones, you are very close to having it running.

Kent
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:45:48 PM
Tom Weatherford Tom Weatherford is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Bring the ole girl to Sistersville,WV show this weekend and the good ole boys there will get her running for you.
Tom
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:02:51 PM
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Well I see your problem right off..... you need internal fire and that fire extinguisher keeps putting out the fire! Sorry, Im a smart a**. I totally agree w/ everyone because I have a 15 Reid and I had the same problem, but now my air is just about choked off and runs and starts very well now. I usually get my hot tube a bright red for starting, but once the engine starts getting warmed up, I turn down the flame on the hot tube to where you can hardly see it glowing at all. Great luck, keep the videos comming. Excellent engine by the way. Tim
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:29:02 PM
Bob Johnson Bob Johnson is offline
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Last weekend I took my 15 HP REID to a show. I have just got it running again after a 2 year absence. Not sure it was starting right I belted it to a tractor, belt around the flywheel to a power take off pulley. I had the pressure relief valve open, engine primed with a shot of gasoline,and the diamond valve slightly more open than usual for running. When the engine was turned I shut the relief valve.It would fire once and then just turn over. I turned the fuel shut off valve off for a revolution and then opened it up again, adjusting the the diamond valve to it's old, usual run setting. The engine fired right up and ran. I then readjusted the diamond valve to control the speed of the engine. All this time the air intake was not controled at anytime and left wide opened.The hot tube was cherry red.
I truely believe that you are flooding your engine and do not think a ball valve has the ability to control the propane with the finess it take for this operation.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:01:13 AM
HVFD FireFighter HVFD FireFighter is offline
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Thanks for all the help so far guys. I will be buying a diamond valve. I just have to find one. Any reccomendations as to where?
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  #16  
Old 09-15-2009, 08:22:41 AM
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Bring the engine to the Caldwell, Ohio show this weekend and I'll bring some diamond valves and we'll get it running.

Go to this link for the show info

http://gasenginetom.com/Old_Iron_Pow..._homepage.html
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2009, 08:32:52 AM
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

sorry guys, cant go to any shows for the next couple of months (FOOTBALL, two kids on two different teams and I coach one of the teams)
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:56:01 AM
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter View Post
Thanks for all the help so far guys. I will be buying a diamond valve. I just have to find one. Any reccomendations as to where?
You can find them for around $100 on Ebay... OR you can still buy them new at DL Harmer in Mannford, Oklahoma 918-865-6993 I think they are around $45. 1/2" is the only size they make.
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:34:15 PM
Rich Hudak Rich Hudak is offline
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

When you open your gas cock, listen to your regulator, listen for the little check ball click. If it makes a click noise, your floating the regulator ball, that cuts the gas off until you turn off your valve on the tank. then it'll click back open once the is no pressure behind it. BBQ regulators are designed to float the check ball when too much gas is flowing.. My .02
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:23:02 PM
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Default Re: Help with 5hp bessemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter View Post
Thanks for all the help so far guys. I will be buying a diamond valve. I just have to find one. Any reccomendations as to where?
Contact John Burns. He has 1/2" diamond valves. They were $65 a couple of years ago, but may have gone up in price.
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