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Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log


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  #181  
Old 12-30-2015, 02:20:41 PM
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John Hamilton John Hamilton is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Thanks for this thread. You're an inspiration to all of us.
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  #182  
Old 12-30-2015, 06:00:50 PM
Nickel City fab Nickel City fab is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

X2, this is one of my all-time favorite threads on the entire 'stak. Its an absolute "must-read" of restoration techniques IMHO.
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  #183  
Old 01-06-2016, 06:28:56 PM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

While taking a break from the lower water manifold patterns (more on that later) I decided to tackle a much smaller item - part no. K2K (Wire tube bracket. Three of these screw into the top of the blocks to support the brass tube that the spark plug wires run through.



As with every part I have had to re-create, I modeled the components in 3D and developed a set of working drawings.



With the 3d model at hand it was easy enough to scale for shrinkage, draft and machining allowances. I soon had prints in ABS.



Once the prints are finished and painted they will be mounted on a follower board. I had thought about using a match plate to move away from using loose patterns but the need to maintain precise alignment made me a bit shy. Instead three of the pattern halves will be pegged to a follower board. After the drag is rammed-up and flipped the follower board will be removed and the loose haves put into place. Then the cope can be rammed-up. After all is said and done I should end-up with three nice bronze castings ready for machining.

To make installation easier the stud pieces (K2K-A) will be machined from hex stock. During assembly the brackets will be slid loose onto the wire tube and the studs screwed into the blocks. Once everything is in alignment and the brackets are inserted into the studs they will be silver soldered into place.

Best regards,

Terry
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  #184  
Old 01-10-2016, 09:00:48 PM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Yesterday found me toiling away in the shop working on various things. First task was making a few t-nuts for the mill. While I was working away on that I had the ABS prints for the wire tube bracket pattern undergoing acetone vapor treatment. It did indeed work making the surface of the patterns nice and glassy smooth which was good but it also slightly rounded the edges of the matting surfaces which is bad. Looks like I will have to re-print the patterns and finish them the old fashion way.

Anyway.. I also worked to get the oil pump drive housing ready for drilling and boring the hole for the shaft. This will be setup on an angle plate and the hole for the shaft drilled and reamed (if I can find the reamer I know I bought but seem to have misplaced) Once that is done it will be setup on an expanding mandrel and the stem turned to diameter and threaded 1"-16 left hand) then back to the mill to take care of the thrust bearing. With the finished piece in hand all I need to do is turn a new shaft and fabricate the coupling.

On another note....When it comes to the design and engineering of this big engine there always seems to be a surprise. With only photos and measurements to go by I fabricated the new intake manifold so that the castings would be joined by short lengths of 1-3/4" O.D. brass tube. Logic would tell you that this was how the original was assembled.

Not so... The brass tubes are full length and pass through the tees. There are holes in the tube which line up with the passages in the castings.


Needless to say since it doesn't show on the outside and has no significant effect on the performance of the engine and since my castings are machined and ready for installation... I am going to stick with my original plan. If I had known this from the beginning that would be a different story.

Best regards,

Terry
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  #185  
Old 01-11-2016, 03:21:26 AM
Paul Schneider Paul Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Very happy to find your thread. You're a hell of a craftsman. Water cooled Wisconsins are a very elusive creature. My brother and I own a 1923 Stutz Ladder Truck from the Los Angeles Fire Department. This truck is powered by a 6 cylinder T Head Wisconsin that is very similar to yours. We were lucky enough to find another to use for spare parts. Our restoration efforts have been painfully slow. This project is the one that we come back to you when time and parts permit. I will take some pictures and share them. The motor is beautiful and we can't wait to hear it run. The motor was rebuilt by a friend of ours that is very well versed in old large motors. Keep up the amazing work. I sure wish we had you helping us at the fire museum we run.

---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------

I need two Wisconsin name plates please!
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  #186  
Old 01-11-2016, 03:34:46 AM
Alastair Geddes. Alastair Geddes. is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

whats the program your using to model in ? / do 2d drawings in ?

can you pull out the 2d from the 3d?
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  #187  
Old 01-11-2016, 11:04:58 AM
OldJalopy OldJalopy is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Quote:
Originally Posted by tharper View Post
The valve stems were enclosed in two piece alluminum shrouds. Like everything else these went missing a long time ago. Thankfully Don (the gentleman I aquired the engine from)
had a pattern and corebox fabricated and had cast a bunch of them. I have 10 pairs and will need to cast only two more.




Hello; Some low-life stole the valve covers off my Wisconsin 4 cyl: Have you had your covers cast and if so can you tell me who did it and cost? Thank you.

ron
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  #188  
Old 01-11-2016, 01:11:51 PM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Hello Paul,
Is it a model "L" or a model "G" if you don't know (because the tag is missing) we can figure it out by the bore diameter.

Alastair,
I use AutoDesk Inventor Professional. We create the 3d component than from that we can create assemblies, welded assemblies and exploded views as well as 2D working drawings.



Hello Ron,
Sorry to here that. What model is your Wisconsin? The valve shrouds I have are specific to the model P, PT & M. The shrouds for the L, G & A may be different. The big difference would be the distance from the top of the lifter guides to the top of the valve guide boss as well as the diameter of the lifter guide tube and valve guide boss. (see below)



In regards to mine. The gentleman I acquired my engine from had the pattern and core box fabricated years ago and most of a set cast. I only had to cast one pair.

I hope this helps!

Best regards,

Terry

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

Hmmm.... attached the wrong drawing! Sorry about that!

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  #189  
Old 01-13-2016, 11:30:58 AM
OldJalopy OldJalopy is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Quote:
Originally Posted by tharper View Post
Hello Paul,
Is it a model "L" or a model "G" if you don't know (because the tag is missing) we can figure it out by the bore diameter.

Alastair,
I use AutoDesk Inventor Professional. We create the 3d component than from that we can create assemblies, welded assemblies and exploded views as well as 2D working drawings.



Hello Ron,
Sorry to here that. What model is your Wisconsin? The valve shrouds I have are specific to the model P, PT & M. The shrouds for the L, G & A may be different. The big difference would be the distance from the top of the lifter guides to the top of the valve guide boss as well as the diameter of the lifter guide tube and valve guide boss. (see below)



In regards to mine. The gentleman I acquired my engine from had the pattern and core box fabricated years ago and most of a set cast. I only had to cast one pair.

I hope this helps!

Best regards,

Terry

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

Hmmm.... attached the wrong drawing! Sorry about that!

Thanks Terry. Don't know what model my engine is, used in '26 FWD truck, 4 cyl, 4.75 x 5.5 bore and stroke. The covers look like the same as my engine: can you tell me where you had your new covers cast? Thank you.

ron
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  #190  
Old 01-13-2016, 06:37:58 PM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Hello Ron,

Your engine would be a model "A" Its the same as used by Stutz. Looking at photos it looks like the shrouds are more rounded at the bottom than mine which could mean the outside diameter of the lifter guides are smaller. I would also check the overall height since its a considerably smaller engine (340 cid v. 1,090 cid) this would be the distance from the top of the lifter guide to the top of the flange on the valve guide.

The person who cast mine was Peter Grant at Odd Duck Foundry in Orrington, ME.

If mine won't fit, and since your engine is common with Stutz, you might want to give a shout out to the Stutz people over on the AACA forum to see if anyone has a set of patterns and core boxes and/or a set available.

Best regards,

Terry
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  #191  
Old 01-15-2016, 10:27:15 AM
OldJalopy OldJalopy is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Many thanks Terry, I'll do some more research.

ron
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  #192  
Old 01-16-2016, 02:51:38 PM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Today in the Man Cave I worked a bit on the patterns for the wire tube brackets. After the disaster using acetone vapor to smooth them (rounded edges and warped)I printed new ones. Today I sanded them and gave them a coat of primer. I had to stop there since I didn't have any dowel to use for the pins. Since we don't have a hardware store here in our little burg next to the border I will have to wait until I drive 10 miles to P.I. to pick some up.



On a good note... I found the reamer and drill I had bought a long time ago for the oil pump drive housing. Which is a very good thing since I almost ordered another one - I am sure my financial manager would have had something to say about that.



Now I just need the UPS truck to show up with the material I ordered for the shaft and some aluminum for the fixture - that is one negative aspect of living here - it takes forever to get a project done because I have to order everything online.

Best regards,

Terry
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  #193  
Old 01-17-2016, 06:57:38 PM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Not much went on the shop today but I did discover once again that just when you think you have it figured out it turns out that it's not quite right.

The oil pump drive has a coupling joining the shaft for the oil pump (mounted on the oil pan) and the oil pump gear box which is mounted on the side of the crankcase. I had assumed that since the ends of the shafts are flat that the coupling was one piece with slots broached for the ends of the shafts. This is not the case. The coupling is actually two pieces - The coupling itself (B3D) which has 1/4" wide slots milled across each end at 90 degree angles to each other and an outer sleeve (B3C) which holds it all in place and is secured with a spring pin. None of this is shown in the parts diagram.

Hopefully tomorrow, after we get back from our snowshoe trek, I can start work on these pieces.


Best regards,

Terry
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  #194  
Old 01-23-2016, 10:24:40 PM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Not much to show for todays work! It always amazes me how much time I can spend on the most basic part. Granted I had to make both pieces twice because I screwed up the first time (I am a novice at this!)

Anyway... I did get the Oil pump shaft coupling sleeve done (just needs to be drilled for the pin) and the blank made for the coupling itself which needs to have the ends slotted and a hole for the pin. All in all not to bad - I am now well on my way to having yet two more parts I didn't have before. Somehow I managed to get the sleeve and coupling to be a nice close fit.

If you look carefully at the shaft in the photo you can see a ring about partway up. This was
caused by the packing. The traditional packing gland and nut has a bevel so as you tighten up the nut it wedges the packing tight against the shaft. Over time, and due to over tightening, the end result is wear as you see here.

Abner Doble of Doble steam car fame stated that the bottom of the stuffing box and face of the gland nut must be cut square - that all the traditional bevel accomplished was to destroy the packing by degree. He claimed that his method caused the pressure exerted by tightening the nut to be distributed evenly throughout the packing material. If he is was right or not I cannot say other than he built a heck of a car!




Best regards,

Terry
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  #195  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:45:02 PM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Today I came home to find a wonderful package waiting for me that was stuffed full of original shop drawings for my engine. Not enough to build a complete engine but enough to certainly help! one set includeds the oil pump drive coupling and sleeve which has caused me to revise my drawings and revisit the parts I made last week. Fortunately its just trimming them here and there as opposed to having scrap them and start over. Other drawings include the oil pump housing, gears, shafts, water pump parts and a number of other misc. pieces. I can't believe these have survived!





As I move forward these will be re-mastered and included in the set I have been working on. To date that set includes close to 50 drawings. Perhaps, down the road a ways someone might find them useful. If not... well I am having a lot of fun creating them!



Best regards,

Terry
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  #196  
Old 02-18-2016, 07:06:43 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Today I worked on the oil pump drive shaft coupling. Not much to show for all the effort! But its one more piece of the puzzle.

Next I need to drill the coupling and sleeve for the spring pin. Than get the coupling heat treated and hardened. Not sure to what the degree. The factory shop drawings says "Carbonize and harden". Hopefully a shop the next town over will be willing to do that for me - if not I will have to figure out how to do it myself - if that's possible. I have annealed and tempered stuff but those were non-critical items.

I also worked on the patterns for the Wire Tube Brackets. The patterns are doweled and the backer board is done. Now I am just waiting for stuff to dry so I can apply the finish paint.




Best regards,

Terry
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  #197  
Old 02-23-2016, 05:55:24 PM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

One more pattern down! Over the weekend I finished the pattern for part No. k2k (wire tube bracket). These little pieces (once finished) will be silver soldered into studs which screw into the top of the cylinder blocks. They hold the brass tube that carries the spark plug wires. Its a fiddly piece but will be well worth the effort. I made the stems extra long to facilitate holding them in the lathe. The extra will be parted-off once the stem is turned to the proper diameter. (I am learning!)


I made these as split patterns with a backer board (MDF sealed with shellac). I could have made them solid but that would have required the foundry to cope down to the partline of each piece. Since I need three of these that would be pain for them. I had though about using a match plate (one half of the pattern mounted on each side of a plate) but I wasn't confident that I could keep everything aligned.



As a first experiment with using 3D printing as opposed to fabricating them from wood I don't think they turned out to bad.

Best regards,

Terry
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  #198  
Old 04-29-2016, 10:07:48 PM
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Photo Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Last week I did the unthinkable - well to be truthful I thought a lot about it but I never thought I actually would totally mess-up the casting for the oil pump drive housing (Part B1B) That lead to a good long session of teeth nashing. It wasn't just the casting it was the loss of the time I had invested in it and the material. Because it serves to house a shaft which drives the oil pump it also acts as a thrust bearing so I had it cast in SAE 660 bearing bronze that a friend had donated to the cause.

Needless to say we were looking at a quite a outlay of cash to replace the bronze. Anyway... as it turns out my foundry wizard, who lives by the rule - never, ever through metal out, had a few ingots on hand left over from when we cast the piece last time. With those in hand along with the mangled casting itself we have enough to do the job. Plus as a bonus he offered to make the long drive to just south of the northern border to give my students a casting lesson which will take place on Friday.

Since I need to recast the oil pump drive housing I decided to fix a few things that were not quite right. One item was adding a thrust bearing surface to support the top of the shaft. Originally I only had a badly smashed piece of an original casting to go from as well as the shaft, gear and retainer. I had to fill in the details as best as possible using exterior measurements of Don's complete drive unit and make some assumptions in regards to the inside. Since than I have found more info. and can now have a more accurate casting made which includes thrust bearing top and bottom as well as a more accurate shape.

Here is a photo of the pieces I had to work with and the first pattern and core box. Mind you these represent my first attempt at pattern work which seems so long ago!



This time I am using 3D printing (which is readily available to me) to create a new pattern and core box. As I sit here typing the pattern is printing - once printed I will have to sand and finish the pieces.




On the left, in green is the pattern. Attached to the back via dowels is the core print (yellow). The pattern will be laid flat on the mold board and one half of the mold rammed-up. Because of the stem sticking out of the pattern Peter (the foundry wizard) will have to cope (dig) down to find the center or part line of the stem. At the same time the core print will be put in place. When the other half of the mold is rammed-up the core print will leave a depression that will allow the core to be aligned correctly and held in place.

To the right, in red are the core box halves - both halves are identical (now that I have added the missing thrust bearing).These will be fastened together and core sand packed into the cavity. After removal from the core box the core will be set aside to cure. Once cured it will be placed in the core print impression left by the pattern. The core forms the hollow part of the finished casting.

The truth is if I hadn't of messed-up my casting I wouldn't have known it wasn't quite right and my students wouldn't be able to have a hands-on casting session.

All good fun!!

Best regards,

Terry
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  #199  
Old 04-30-2016, 09:59:50 PM
OddDuck OddDuck is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Oh, sure Terry, go and be all modern and cheat by letting the computer make the pattern. The ones you did "old school" were pretty darn nice. Looking forward to Friday, should be a lot of fun!
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  #200  
Old 05-04-2016, 07:37:30 AM
tharper tharper is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin T-Head Restoration Log

Good morning folks! The sun is shining, the sky is blue and its almost Fiddlehead picking time! Though I still have some in the freezer from last year I can't wait to have a steaming bowl of fresh fiddleheads topped with crispy crumbles of salt port and a vinaigrette made with the cracklings.

I have had a productive last few days - here is the new pattern and core box halves for the revised oil pump drive box (B1B). Its all 3D printed. I can't say it was a time saver. It took 17 hrs to print the pattern, 20 for the two core box halves and another 2 for the core print. Then there is the sanding, filling and painting. In the end I think it came out rather nice and is a much neater and accurate job than the wood pattern I used the first time though I can't help thinking that they lack soul. But... they will work just fine!



Now we get to get them all dirty on Friday when we do some casting.

Best regards,

Terry
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