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Hercules TXO


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  #1  
Old 07-03-2008, 09:24:11 PM
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Default Hercules TXO

Hello ladies and gentlemen. We recently purchased a flathead 4 cylinder Hercules engine which is quite unusual (at least to us), it is a model TXO. It has a 6 3/8" bore X 7" stroke and the block is a single casting but the heads are cast in pairs. The governor arrangement is quite unusal, it appears to involve a connection from the oil pump at the back of the engine to the manifold and the governor is either located inside the lower crankcase or in a larger cylinder which is adjacent to the intake butterfly. It appears to be a power unit from the mid to late 20's with a clutch and belt-pulley attachment. The clutch is quite large as is the crankshaft. I will post some pictures of this unit when I get them off of my camera.

Does anyone have any information on this model of engine? This is the first of this type we have seen.
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  #2  
Old 07-04-2008, 12:27:17 AM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

I might have. I have Hercules manuals back into 1940. I will see what I have.
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  #3  
Old 07-04-2008, 12:45:23 AM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Well, I have a little, and I mean, a little...
It's on my Herc engine list, and TX's are a Series:
TX 51/2 x 7
TXA 6x7
TXAC ( no b/s)
TXC (no b/s)
TXO 63/8 x 7
TXOC (no b/s)
They apparently share some gaskets--a 1930 McCord catalog lists the TX, TXA and TXO, all cast in pairs with different head gaskets, but the "manifold hot spot" and "exhaust manifold, inner" gaskets are the same (but those are the only gaskets listed).
Presumably all were power units; the catalog lists various cars, trucks, tractors the various engines were used in but show none for the TX's; I've got some catalogs I haven't indexed yet, and will check to see if they're listed anywhere else. Must be quite a pile of cast iron!!
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  #4  
Old 07-04-2008, 10:00:26 AM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

The TX series must have been an odd ball unit for Hercules. I have a parts book from April 1 1954. The engine sales list for 1953 and1955 do not list the TX unit. It is listed as a power and engine unit. Bud has the bore and stroke posted. The only thing different. The TX-TXA-TXO rotate clockwise looking from the cranking end. TXC-TXAC-TXO rotate counter-clockwise. Everything else appears to be the same. Unless it became some other series of engine it must have had a short production run.
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Old 07-04-2008, 12:16:40 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

I don't have anything in the teens or 20's that includes power units, so I have nothing on when the TX's were introduced.
Being cast in pairs, they probably go back aways before the 1930 McCord catalog listing.
The CCW versions, (the "C's") were same b/s as the CW:
TX, TXC: 51/2
TXA, TXAC: 6
TXO/TXOC: 63/8
While 36 and 40 King catalogs(Pistons, rings, valves, bearings, water pump parts, and fairly comprehensive) list them in piston assembly section, King had no parts, but a 1944 Sealed Power catalog listed piston, ring and pin sets for the TXA/C and TXO/C, but not for the TX/TXC. My next bearing catalog is 66, which doesn't list any of them.
Keeping in mind that parts catalogs are notoriously incomplete, and most just reflect the more popular engines, it's probably an approximation of their useful life. If you're looking for possible parts sources, in addition to the sponsors here, I can email or post a few that've been mentioned in other posts. Good luck.
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2008, 03:30:48 PM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Bud I think this is the odd part. Why would Hercules publish a parts manual for an out of production unit. I found the engine sales list for 1950 and the TX series is not listed. I agree with you on age,must have been before 1950.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:42:53 PM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Yes, it is quite a chunk of iron . As promised, here are the pictures.the first two pictures are the right and left sides of the engine. Bud, as the pictures show better than my description, only the heads are in pairs, not the block. The next picture is of the engine tag and the final picture is that wierd governor arrangement.

The only online references I have found are a Jensales parts catalog (year not shown on ad) and an old e-bay listing of a 1930 sales catalog for Hercules engines.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2008, 06:36:40 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Yes, I did mis-read (or missed completely) that the block was one piece, with dual heads; thxx for reminder.
I looked up flat belts in a mid-30's fan belt catalog, and was surprised to see a few holdouts using them up into 31 or so, but I'm still inclined to guess at least mid-20's for the introduction of the TX's.
Billy: I would guess Herc just had an inventory of manuals for obsolete engines, and listed them as long as they had any; or, as public relations, they could've had a program to run off copies when an inquiry came in.
Was this engine near Herc's upper size limit for b/s?? My available parts catalogs don'.t list anything bigger, like the larger b/s's shown under Wauks.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:17:59 PM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Bud I will check on the largest b/s I have a list for.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:21:19 AM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Bud All the list I have or under the b/s for the TX. As for the governor it list three from Pierce and one from Handy with 16 coil spring. No pictures just the parts list. I did find a picture of the fan assembly dated 8-11-1925. Two more governors I just found. Low speed Mercury turbine. I will let you guys know if I find out more.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:28:17 AM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

They also show a hand crank for this unit. I bet that was fun.
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:13:16 PM
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Smile Re: Hercules TXO

Hi FWurth-
This is the only thing that I remember seeing in 6 3/8" bore size. I don't ever remember selling a set of rings for a TXO. I dug out some old ring books and a 1940 Wausau catalog shows the TXO and TXOC Hercules from 1929 to 1937 having three 5/16" compression rings and one 3/16" oil ring. The 1935 Sealed Power catalog shows them from 1920 to 1930 and three 5/16" compressions and one 5/16" oil ring per piston. The 1931 Sealed Power catalog lists the same ring package but list about 20 different engine models between 1920 and 1930. I would say that the 1920 to 1930 year span is not right and would tend to believe the 1929-1937 Wausau dating. The 1955 Pedrick catalog says that it takes three 5/16" compressions, one 5/16" oil ring and a 3/16" oil per piston. Pedrick doesn't give a year. The 1942 Ramco catalog lists two ring sets, for cast iron pistons two 5/16" compressions, two 5/16" oils. For aluminum pistons they list two 3/16" compressions and a 3/16" and a 1/4" oil. The 1941 Mcquay Norris catalog lists three 5/16" compressions and one 5/16" oil. In conclusion I would say that the TXO came in early years with cast iron pistons and later on with aluminum. The years produced are most likely 1929 to 1937. I will go out on a limb again and guess that your engine was the 71st model txo engine built. Any idea what this was used for? Marine? Sawmill? Irrigation? From 1929 to 1937 were some hard times in this country and that probably explains why many weren't sold.
Thank you,
Dave Reed
Otto Gas Engine Works
2167 Blue Ball Road
Elkton MD 21921-3330
phone 410-398-7340 http://www.pistonrings.net
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:37:04 PM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Dave the parts book I have shows a print for the fan assembly for the TXO from 1925. The odd part is the book was published in 1954. Long after the production stopped.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:03:30 PM
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Smile Re: Hercules TXO

Hi Billy J-
As you can see from the different ring packages that were offered that ring catalogs are far from the last word as errors are plentiful. The 1925 date is probably the most accurate at this point as the picture probably was to show the "new" design on the newest model engine at the time the picture was taken. I would also guess that the 3/16" oil ring listing for the early cast iron pistons is probably bogus and the engines probably had 5/16" oil rings. With three 5/16" compressions per piston. This looks like a mid 1920's type design with the twin flat heads. Thanks for pointing it out as I had missed the boat on the 1925 picture printed in 1954. This would make an interesting installation in an old boat. It probably doesn't have a lot of hot collector value at this point but would be worth saving due to being a rare model. In future years it should move up in value a good bit. It is good to see some of this old stuff saved from the junk man. When it is gone, it is gone.
Thank you,
Dave Reed
Otto Gas Engine Works
2167 Blue Ball Road
Elkton MD 21921-3330
phone 410-398-7340 http://www.pistonrings.net
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:58:17 AM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Dave's ring info was so much fun to follow I just can't resist...
36 King catalog: 3 comp 5/16, 1 oil 5/16...
39 Hastings: (this catalog has 1 col for comp, two for oil, the 2 oil used when piston has two oil of different sizes), and has two lines for TXO/TXOC, but no explanation:
CI? 2 comp 5/16, 2 oil 5/16 (3rd col blank);
AL? 2 comp 3/16, 1 oil 3/16, 1 oil 1/4;
40 King: same as 36 King above;
44 Sealed Power: CI 3 comp 5/16, 1 oil 5/16;
AL 3 comp 3/16, 1 oil 1/4;
45 Hastings: (this catalog lists rings as "Top, 2nd" etc thru "6th Ring Grooves", shows four rings, all 5/16, the top two their "Dubl-Test" and the bottom two their "Steel-Vent", but I don't know if their names correlate to comp or oil rings.
It isn't just the individual parts that these catalogs sometimes don't agree upon; I use them for engine ID, and sometimes they disagree on the whole engine, although often not their fault when engine changes made after info gathered but before catalog printed or after catalog printed. Fun!!
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:21:16 AM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

FWurth Unpacked one of my moving boxes. Fouind several parts manuals for your unit. Also found the operators manual, Iam working on getting a copy made. If you would like I can send you the manuals. Home number 903-536-3202.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:12:23 AM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy J Shafer View Post
Two more governors I just found. Low speed Mercury turbine.
Billy,

Does "turbine" the type or engine or the type of governor. If that is the type of governor, could that be what's in the canistor next to the intake on my 4th picture above?

Frank W.
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:02:11 AM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Frank Not sure what type that is. The book does not show a picture of the governors. Just a list of what you could get.
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Old 09-06-2008, 07:48:11 PM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

First, I would like to thank everyone for their help and information; Billy the manuals are invaluable .

Just bumping this to the top with a note that I noticed in the Emerson Tractor thread (http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showth...t=34162&page=2) that the Pierce governor pictured in post 22 appears to be the same that is used on this Hercules TXO.

Frank
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:15:08 AM
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Default Re: Hercules TXO

Hello again everyone. I'm bringing this to the top again with a request for more information. I am hoping to begin working on this engine sometime this summer (after I move closer to the farm). I was wondering what sort of running gear would have been used on this engine. Does anyone have pictures of an example?

Thanks again for any help.

Frank W.
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