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Emd 567 Sound


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  #1  
Old 06-30-2019, 07:09:00 PM
sftyvlv1 sftyvlv1 is offline
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Default Emd 567 Sound

I've heard different reasons why. No one seems to have the same answer.
Why do 567's whine. It's cool as anything.
Turbo? Supercharger? Generator?
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  #2  
Old 06-30-2019, 07:39:26 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 sound

The naturally aspirated ones have the distinct sound of the big Roots blower.

The turbocharged 567... Do those use a gear driven turbo like the like the 645 and the 710? Or do they retain the blower and use a conventional turbo like a Detroit Diesel? That'll sure effect how they sound!

I don't know! All the 567s I worked around were non-turbo...

Well, I found this article. Wiki is frequently in error, but it states the turbocharged 567 has the gear driven turbo, as the later ones did.

They also call the blower a supercharger, which it definitely is not on an EMD or a Detroit Diesel so...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_567

Keith
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:17:30 AM
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Default Re: Emd 567 sound

Generally, large two stroke engines require a " scavenging air blower " to force fresh air charge in and exhaust out. As long as there is not a significant increase in cylinder pressure at the start of the compression stroke, there is no " supercharging ".
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:23:21 PM
Railroads Railroads is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 sound

I'm nuts about the EMD 567 sound.

Some from Australia,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBvfJvFVE-Y Traction motors are smoking too!

The locos are similar to a EMD E8, but are built under contract by Clyde Engineering using EMD guts. Unlike the E8, all the wheels are driven on some of the Clyde locomotives. C-C instead of A-1-A.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbWR7giOe7k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFsB5Rffy50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhCoFHULyxI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClB-VnsCufA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNWvPLLBT48

Epic Alco struggles from Australia too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXFCc_mBOsw

Robert
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:19:16 PM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 sound

I just cant do it captin, I NEED MORE POWER!!
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Old 07-04-2019, 08:42:14 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 sound

robert, I got a question for you. how old are these GM loco's? they look late 50's early 60's from there shape.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:54:29 AM
casertractor casertractor is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcYFf_H-xyY
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:14:21 AM
Railroads Railroads is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy T View Post
robert, I got a question for you. how old are these GM loco's? they look late 50's early 60's from there shape.
Tracy, They are from the 1950's and 1960's. Aussie private operators bought up the old locomotives to get a few years out of them back in the early 1990's. A large chunk of what is in those videos have gone to scrap. Some of the double end locomotives are for sale on Sterling Rail right now.

Australia has always had a shortage of decent locomotives as any of the big new GE or EMD units either go to National Rail, or to the BHP iron ore railways. The private operators haven't really had the resources to pursue brand new locomotives until recently.

Robert

---------- Post added at 11:14:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12:24 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by casertractor View Post
Pure 567 magic. Turn up those speakers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJjJPEGV22c

Robert
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:55:59 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

Those ones that weren't moving and were smoking were most certainly destroyed. Morons.

Should have tied down several of the cars at the rear, made a cut, pulled the rest up the hill and into a siding, then ran around those and back down to pick up the rest. IMBECILES!

https://advanced.jhu.edu/wp-content/...-Stupidity.pdf
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Old 07-05-2019, 02:23:01 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

Okay, so... the EMD engines I taught on, had a 'turbosupercharger'.

It had a blower, but it was driven by TWO power sources- the camshaft gear, and an exhaust turbine.

Under normal loaded operation, the engine was developing plengy of exhaust gas pressure, so the exhaust turbine would easily spin the blower AND generate a fair amount of boost.

At low speeds, though, there was no substantial exhaust pressure, so the exhaust turbine would NOT spin the blower.

Instead, there was a gearbox and overrunning clutch that would drive the blower shaft.

I don't recall off the top of my head where the 'general changeover' from mechanical to turbine drive occurred, but...

You can HEAR the blower spin up mechanically when starting. Once running, but with insufficient exhaust gas pressure, you'll 'hear' the exhaust turbine being 'disruptive' to exhaust restriction of the turbine being mechanically-spun. As throttle is brought up, exhaust gas pressure overruns the mechanical drive's overrunning clutch, and you get boost.
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:11:37 AM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

Yes, a turbosupercharger! That is actually the proper name for a turbocharger. It is what they were called when they were introduced. As in an "exhaust gas turbine driven supercharger". But people are lazy. "Turbocharger". Now they're even lazier. "Turbo" lol.

But the EMDs, being two stroke, require a blower for scavenging.

The distinction here is that a blower's purpose is for scavenging and a supercharger's purpose (regardless of what drives it) is to cram more air in during the intake stroke. Obviously either one can serve either purpose and they are frequently constructed identically. And in the case of the EMD the single "gear driven turbo" serves both purposes at once.

But you cannot practically add boost to a two stroke without a corresponding "back pressure" on the exhaust since the exhaust valves close after the inlet ports are covered. That exhaust pressure is caused by the restriction of the turbine nozzle.

So, as stated, the gear train provides the power to drive the blower for scavenging during starting and idling. There's still exhaust striking the turbine at idle, but not enough to drive the blower. It just takes a bit of load off the gear train.

As the throttle is advanced, more exhaust is produced, and more power is produced by the turbine. I want to say by ear and memory that the turbine just about unloads the gear train in Run 3. Most of the EMDs I was around were non-turbo 567s, and so just had the BIG Rootes blower (the sound the OP was talking about). But I did get to spend a little time with some 645s and maybe some 710s. Run 3 or maybe 4 seemed about where the complete transition took place. Have to remember Run 1 didn't accelerate the engine at all, just loaded it at idle speed, unlike a GE.

Advancing the throttle still further, the turbine now drives blower faster than the gear train, as stated the overrunning clutch is there for that reason. Now you're likely starting to get some meaningful boost, and the blower is now doubling as a supercharger, driven entirely by the turbine.

Keith
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:13:26 PM
casertractor casertractor is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvdocH6jP_Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5hmWlKsygo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCd7TSk1zAk
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Old 07-05-2019, 06:16:39 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

Those are very nice! I've never heard an air start one before.

First one turbocharged, second one naturally aspirated and you hear the big Rootes blower. Notice how responsive it is, just like a Detroit. Great for switching. The GEs were SLOW responding.

Those old switchers I worked with were 12 cylinder non-turbo 567s, around 1200 hp IIRC, and all sounded like that second one. They're all gone now. Thanks for bringing back fond memories.

Keith
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Old 07-05-2019, 07:24:18 PM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

you guys, SUCK!!!!!!! just rub it in why dont ya. seriously though.
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:44:33 PM
Railroads Railroads is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy T View Post
you guys, SUCK!!!!!!! just rub it in why dont ya. seriously though.
Tracy,

Give these a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0b8ANibYW8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhwySkEHUxM

Sweden! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl8X2-sesnY

Robert
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:44:45 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

still think i like the old GM units the best!
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:38:29 PM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

I was watching another youtube recommendation, 380 gallons of engine oil! now thats a freaking oil change!
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:10:24 PM
casertractor casertractor is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4kMXeuJQ4g
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:37:56 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

I've slept to that sound before... 12-567 though. But it's missing the gentle rocking that is in sync with the sound.

Take the conductor's chair and turn it backwards towards the brakeman's chair, turn on the baseboard heater under them, coil up and ahhhh.

Keith
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:02:03 PM
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Default Re: Emd 567 Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by casertractor View Post
If I played that at night my wife would have me hauled off to a looney bin.
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