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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2


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  #1  
Old 08-06-2014, 10:06:29 PM
budpalumbo budpalumbo is offline
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Default I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Hello all,

Right to the point to save time. I'm new to hit miss engines, bought running Stover ct2. Don't want to do a restoration but want to ensure it isn't going to explode. Resources I should get so I don't screw it up? (books, manuals, links, etc.) I did just order the operators manual/parts book.

Apologies if this is a worn out topic. Links appreciated, and a dope slap is acceptable. (didn't find what I wanted searching)

The digression for those interested:

I've always been fascinated by hit-miss engines, so I decided to get one. Friends ask why, I'd say so I can sit in the yard, drink a beer, and watch it run. Grandmas ice cream that I didn't have to work so hard to make, the roasted hog, and the guilt over towing dads saw into the woods after I backed the truck into it are my rationalizations.

I work on European cars for a living and information is everything. Tight tolerances and torque specs. I don't have an issue tearing the heads off a v8 quad overhead cam engine with variable intake and exhaust valve timing and electronic lifters to control engine speed instead of a throttle plate. The problem now is that I have an little engine that looks like someone just beat an old plow into the general shape of a connecting rod and gets lubrication by slinging a cup of sludge in the same general area of the important bits. Torque wrench? No, monkey wrench. Fiber optics, 50 computers, and coil on plug to a magic box that makes spark.

So, what is acceptable lateral movement of the crank? Thrust? How about the wrist pin? Governor gear/shaft? Where can I find this information? What should I tear down and inspect/repair no matter what?

What I do know. The engine runs well. The only odd (to me) noise is the mechanical sound of the cam and push rod, doesn't sound like knocking to me. I need to solder the fuel tank and cut crank housing gaskets. Crank has small amount of lateral movement, pulley side has thrust movement. Pulled cap, top half of bearing and crank look very good. (haven't removed other cap so I can lift crank to inspect bottom bearing half yet) The wrist pin and rod bearing have no noticed thrust movement, but wrist pin has lateral and subsequent angular movement in rod bearing. From a car background I'd be getting another engine because the movement I see means horrible breaking noises, but I also don't deal with shims in bearing journals and visible gaps in connecting rod to cap spacing.

Am I just paranoid? Should I break out the mics and feeler gauges? Or is this more like an MG tranny or beetle engine-as long as nothing bigger than a dime falls out the drain and it doesn't sound like a gremlin is hammering the block it's all good?

If you read this far, thank you. Maybe I'll bump into you in Portland, its just a couple hours from me. I'll be the guy asking too many questions.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:35:03 PM
casertractor casertractor is offline
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Here is a good source for parts.John



http://www.hitnmiss.com
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:46:15 PM
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Dick Graybill Dick Graybill is online now
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Welcome to the (hobby). If it runs well enjoy it. One of the worst things to do , in my opinion is to get the mic's and plastigage out and set the bearings. I know a machinist who set the main bearing to .005 on old engine, it was so tight you could hardly turn it over. It would not get up to speed to latch out. Finally several guys convinced him to loosen mains and the problem was solved.If too much play in the mains you may have shims you can remove but, don't make them too tight. As far as sitting in the shade drinking suds I don't, but I've been known to sit at a show and fall a sleep listening to them.Been messing with them 16 years. Have fun. Dick.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:49:16 PM
HBurk HBurk is offline
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

I can attest to Dick "SNOOZIN! Seeya this weekend, Dick!
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:06:01 PM
GregKinder GregKinder is offline
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Bud I understand where you are coming from I am also in the auto repair business all the things you have learned over the years mostly don't apply to these engines. They were designed to be run & maintained by farmers many who knew nothing about an engine before they got one. You tighten bolts and check most clearances by feel. They will run quite well even when you can move the valve stem up and down 1/4" or lots of blow by (I have one that the bore is so wore out that some time there is a fire ball on the back side of the piston on the power stroke) slop in the bearings etc. Just sit back & enjoy.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:34:14 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Thumbs up Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

As others have said - all things in moderation. your Stover probably is over 80 years old, it is bound to have some wear! Lets see if one of todays cars lasts that long (HA HA). As for clearances, here is an easy check: Remove the spark plug. Roll the engine over a couple of revolutions, and note resistance to rotation. If you think bearing clearance is excessive on the con rod big end or on the mains, remove the cap and remove a thin shim from both sides of the cap or rod, one bearing at a time. Replace and snug the nuts or bolts, and see if the engine still rolls over freely. If there is rolling resistance, or if the engine slows quickly, replace the removed shims, tighten the cap, and you are good. If the engine still rolls freely, tighten the cap and re-check. If now stiff to turn, again, replace shims. If all good, and play still excessive, repeat until you get resistance, and re-install last set of shims, until engine turns without resistance. Make sure to do this one bearing at a time. If you do more than one, you won't know which one is too tight! As for the wrist pin - If there is a lot of play, remove the piston and check the pin and bushing for wear. If the pin is worn, check with H&M Enterprises (a sponsor here on the Stak) for a replacement. The bushing in the rod is also replaceable, make sure the oil admission hole lines up with the hole in the rod, and make sure you have about 2 or 3 thousandths clearance. If a little more, OK, but not more than 5. Most of these engines will run fine with a lot of play. As long as they are just idling, they will practically run for ever, as long as they have grease and oil slobbering about, no matter how badly they are worn! See H&M too about the cork gaskets for your crankcase. Enjoy your new toy, and be careful - old iron disease tends to increase with exposure Welcome to the Stak too
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Old 08-07-2014, 10:44:07 PM
K L Workman K L Workman is offline
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Bud, I read your whole post. I like the part about sitting in the yard, drinking beer, and watching it run. After that I got lost. Don't make this harder than it is. Every engine I've ever had trouble with, I've found the answers here on the Stak. I've searched the old threads for hours on end, and there are some very good posts on here. Just remember, most hit and miss engines are 4-stroke engines that need fuel, air, and spark. Good luck and learn a little every day instead of learning it all in one day.
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:20:13 AM
budpalumbo budpalumbo is offline
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Thanks for the assurances everyone!

I guess I've just been used to car engines for so long I forgot that these were made for a farmer to keep going with an adjustable wrench, hammer and baler twine.

I pulled the crank up, the journals and bearings look good so I'll just double check the wrist pin before I put new gaskets in and not worry about about a few thousandths of play.

Thanks again everyone!
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:42:01 PM
Gold Dredger Guy Gold Dredger Guy is offline
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

I've had a ct-2 for about 3 years now and know of the noise you speak of, in a automotive world that means something bad fixin to happen, but not here, it's sounded the same since the first time I cranked it and it runs fine,all day long at the shows and around the garage here at home,
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:22:23 PM
oldproff oldproff is offline
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

I agree with Andrew on every thing he said, including seaping lube. I go by the rule to much lube will make a mes you can clean up. To little lube can tear up something that might be hard to repair. Bill K
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Old 09-14-2014, 05:06:38 AM
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Bud, you mentioned an MG tranny or a VW engine -- it's waaayyyy more tolerant than either of those. I've seen these things with worn-out bearings replaced with leather, still running. Probably the worst things that happen to them is water freezing and cracking the water jacket or head, or the wristpin getting loose and digging a trench in the cylinder. As long as neither of those happens, it'll run another 80 years.

Bill Miller
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Old 09-14-2014, 05:21:57 PM
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Welcome to the stak Bud, one of the most interesting posts I have read before, LOL, like everyone said, these can run loose as a goose , might bang a little , but very tolerant , and I am one of those guys that loves a oil can and a lot of grease, got my butt whipped as a kid because Dad didn't think I had enough grease in a pin on a backhoe, LOL One thing you might want to check, under the cyl in the crankcase there should be NO cracks that go into the water jacket area. I have read several posts that water was getting into the oil and that is where it was coming from, be a good check while you have the back off. Yea ya definately can't even run your lawnmower as loose as ya can these or it would trash on ya can like right now!! Oh and expect a little oil slinging from the mains, not a good place for your better half or GF to stand with a new white dress is anywhere near the front or back, Dad bought one of those at a show one day for a friends wife, the thing just all of sudden decided to start slinging oil, never done it before, two nice stripes down the back of her new white dress......
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:15:14 PM
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Had a Jaeger several years ago that was a real mess...when I tore it down the mains had chunks of leather belt in place of the bearing halves and had paper (thin cardboard) for shims in the main caps...and it ran pretty good with all that...Necessity is the Mother of invention and the old days were a time when there was no parts store on the corner.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:53:44 PM
Gold Dredger Guy Gold Dredger Guy is offline
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

That's funny, I was at a show last spring and the stover was slinging oil off the mains, as usual. The place we were at was at a local bank,they host the show. And one of the bank employees admiring all the engines running, stood behind the stover in tan pants,and got the two stripes that you talked about, he just said I love these old engines and smiled.
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Old 09-15-2014, 07:58:49 AM
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

When I re-bush a wrist pin and have to hone it to fit, I fit it to where there is an ever so slight drag.

This is because a honed fit will quickly wear to a good fit.

Welcome to a great hobby. It's what I call "life in the slow lane".
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Old 09-15-2014, 08:30:52 PM
Hal Rosenquist Hal Rosenquist is offline
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Default Re: I'm new to hobby, so now what? stover ct2

Welcome to the cast iron addiction and smoke and gas fume inhalers club. I have an Economy CT-1 made by Stover for Sears and it was a heavy smoker when I received it, rebuilt it with new rings and checked bearings and all the other running gear and like everyone here has said it don't have to be perfect just close like in horseshoes and hand grenades. One thing I have experimented with is adding some STP high mileage oil treatment in the crankcase oil, and it seems to slow some of the oil slinging down a bit and helps it run a little quieter. Just something to consider in yours, have a great time, easy on the shade trees and suds you could fall out of your chair and get hurt. LOL. Welcome again . Hal
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