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Scale Model Engineering

Scale Models -vs- Representations


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Old 01-24-2015, 04:05:39 AM
Jeff Smith Jeff Smith is offline
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Default Scale Models -vs- Representations

What defines the term "Scale model"? I see many items called a scale model that are in no way shape or form a true scale model of the item. I see items that at 1,000 yards they are still clearly just a representation of an object, but clearly not a true scale model of an actual item. I was just wondering if there is an actual term to be utilized for the scale models where the folks that built the item actually took the time to make each and every piece of the object and it is truly a scale model of the object and not a representation, or do folks just use the term too loosely? I am just curious. Model railroaders actually have terms such as a "Master Modeler".
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Old 01-24-2015, 06:46:06 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: Scale Models -vs- Representations

To me "Scale Model" means an accurately scaled exact replica of the real thing.

On the other hand, some of my engines are technially -similar- to the original but, in no way are meant to exactly depict the original. Thus, I don't say they are -scale- models because they aren't. They are "Models" though. I guess. Maybe.......

Did I say that right?
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:52:03 AM
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Default Re: Scale Models -vs- Representations

"Scale" can sometimes be interrupted by things such as available materials, hardware, tooling and the builders ability/enthusiasm.
Also, physics can sometimes enter into the picture.
I really enjoy seeing a persons work who didn't let any of these factors get in his/her way.
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:22:43 AM
wagswitte wagswitte is offline
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Default Re: Scale Models -vs- Representations

I think if you want to talk scale versus replica yea there is a difference but if you wanted to build an exact model of any tractor,steam engine or gas engine you could spend thousands of dollars doing it granted there are casting kits for the steam engines and gas engines but I don't believe I have ever seen one for tractor's I for one like to see what people build from things they have around the shop or maybe have to buy some stuff just the Oil Pull replica I built and the Mogul I'm working on now I know they are not exact scale models but I hope they turn out good enough that people will like what I've done I'm not a engineer or have a degree but I've been a welder and fab guy for 30 plus years and I enjoy making things and I just like to see if I can do it my wife asks me why are you building that and I tell her because I can,anyway thats my thoughts on it.
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Old 01-24-2015, 12:03:41 PM
chrsbrbnk chrsbrbnk is offline
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Default Re: Scale Models -vs- Representations

I'm not really sure it would be reasonably possible, say with threaded components, like you wanted to build a third scale and it had 1/2 -13 bolts holding on the head you would need a bolt .1666 dia by 39 pitch. and running or functionality depend a lot on the physics say a fly wheel would be hugely less massive 50lbs versus about 4. so models wind up really heavy from perfect size scale just to make functional scale.There's thermo dynamic problems as on a boiler, where a size scale would have a lot more surface area to volume then a full size. then there is the just aesthetic part like say a steam whistle alot of dogs will thank you if you make it larger. theres a bunch more reasons but I think the trick is make it make it feel and look as close as possible, like slow running, smell, color , and noise,
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:25:04 AM
gbritnell gbritnell is offline
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Default Re: Scale Models -vs- Representations

Jeff,
I would think the term 'scale model' would be just that, a miniature or model of the full sized item that was scaled down.
You mention model railroaders having a class know as 'master modeler'. It's easier to scale something down that doesn't have functionality more than the wheels turning but even at that things such as hand rails or wall thicknesses have to be adjusted for scale otherwise they would be too fragile to build or handle.
As far as steam and internal combustion engines you can scale down a lot of the parts and pieces but there is no way to scale a carburetor, ignition, spark plug or flywheel and make it functional.
The most recent functional 'scale model' that I can think of is the Deusenberg built by Lou Chenot. As far as I'm concerned it would be classed as a scale model, and 85% of it functions. Does that mean the gauges work or the windshield wipers, no, but the engine, transmission and most of the other components do.
There are miniature die cast representations of all sorts of equipment, tractors, cars, bulldozers, airplanes etc. and I would class them as 'scale models' but concessions have to be made.
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Old 01-25-2015, 02:34:49 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Scale Models -vs- Representations

Dick Shelly used to make scale models of engines for museums. I helped him get a few running over the years. Building scale engines is an art, and is very time consuming. many things cannot be scaled exactly, if you do not make one off parts. There are also some things that cannot be scaled exactly, due to physical constraints. Take magnetoes and carburetors for example. Certain parts cannot be reduced in size and still functiion like the original full sized version.

Many model engines made today are not true scale, but are representative of the original they replicate. Some are close in appearance, others are not. Suffice to say, if you want a true scale engine, be prepared to pay big bucks for it. i have several engines dick Shelly built, and they weren't cherap. No 800 dollar job there. Dick was a perfectionist, and you did not get your engine until he was satisfied with the entire job. If you bought one of his engines, it was the best ypur money could buy. There are several people who still make true scale models. have a look at the Davis family website. John has a listing of builders and outfits that make casting kits. Wayne Grenning and Bob Herder make some neat engines as well.
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Old 01-25-2015, 03:33:59 PM
Lester Bowman Lester Bowman is offline
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Default Re: Scale Models -vs- Representations

My thought process thinks "scale" is a SIZE determined by various considerations.Half of full size,one quarter full size,ect.

You can have a beautifully PROPORTIONED quarter scale or a very poor one.Like has been said not all things are scalable.

If the definition of scale was an EXACT copy of something larger only smaller it would still be an erroneous definition of scale.Why? Because nature won't let us scale those little things called Molecules.

You can have something that looks extremely close but upon reflection there is no such thing as an exact copy nor is that even possible.

So Scale (to me) is the scale size the object was built too but PROPORTION (To form the parts with balance or symmetry) determines how well the builder portrays the full size object.

Both engines pictured are built one third the size of the large ones...one third the size but properly proportioned.

No..an exact copy "SCALE" engine never existed nor ever could because we can't scale nature...and this doesn't even begin to address such things as tool finish,alloys and materials
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