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Evinrude Water Pump - Antique


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  #1  
Old 01-29-2018, 01:16:30 PM
Overkill66 Overkill66 is offline
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Default Evinrude Water Pump - Antique

My local fire department has an old Evinrude 2 cylinder antique water pump that appears to be in really good shape. The chief has asked me to see if I can get it running for old home day etc. I know nothing about this older stuff and I know very little about how this engine works so I was hoping someone here would be able to help me understand it and source parts. Thanks for all your help!! I have attached photos (I think)!
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Old 01-29-2018, 03:03:48 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Evinrude water pump - antique

I would run it on a 12:1 mix - 3/4 cup SAE 30 non-detergent or TCW-3 oil to 1 gallon high test gas. DO NOT use modern synthetics or 1 mix fuels! DO NOT run it without water in either the pump or engine. Hook it up to a small pool or a 35 gallon barrel and either circulate or discharge the water and shut down the engine. We use an 11/2" discharge line with a 1/2" smooth bore nozzle to demonstrate our fire pumpers. You need the restriction to force pumped water thru the engine. Without it, unless you have an extremely long hose lay, you will not have enough resistance to make the water flow thru the engine. Be aware that the pump will MT a 35 gallon barrel in just about a minute, thus the re-circulation. When we ran our pumps, we used a gated wye on the outlet side. One side went to the hose and nozzle, the other back to the tank or barrel. You could run the pump for about 5 minutes on 35 gallons, recirculating thru the reservoir, then the water got warm. At this point, the valves were switched on the gated wye, so the water would be sent out the discharge hose and nozzle. We would let kids hold the nozzle (with supervision), and the water would fly! One trick was to hold the nozzle almost vertically. After the engine was shut down, it would take about 30 seconds for the water to come down. You would see a beautiful arc as the water flowed thru the air. The inlet side of our pumps use 2" hard suction, to prevent cavitation of the water pump. Points setting should be in the area of .018", plug gap .025". Timing - start about TDC, and advance as speed and power require. This is a battery and coil unit. I would use a 6 volt 10 amp power supply (battery). This should be able to run your pump a day or 2 before recharge. Any more info needed, please ask, we will be glad to help!

Some more info: The 2 copper 3/8 tubes coming off the engine - they are for water cooling on the pump. Line to base of cylinders goes to the discharge side of the pump. Looks like it is already hooked up. Connection at the head (top) of the cylinders, goes to the inlet side of the pump. There might be a valve in line with either side - this is adjusted so the cylinder head is just warm (NOT HOT) to the touch. Flow is determined by water temperature. You will need to mount a fuel tank, if you do not already have one. It should be mounted in such a way that the bottom is about 2 to 3 inches above the carb. 1/4" copper line for fuel piping.
Andrew
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Old 01-29-2018, 04:44:50 PM
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Default Re: Evinrude Water Pump - Antique

I'm trying to decide what category this belongs in. Evinrude is of course marine related and my brother has one of these that looks like an outboard motor, except that it is for pumping water out of the bottom of a boat. It is a brass tagged as Evinrude. Don't forget to add cup grease for the bearings. https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175719

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Old 01-29-2018, 07:11:31 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Evinrude Water Pump - Antique

Harry, Evenrude made quite a few pumping engines, and not only for themselves! I have a Pacific Engineering fire pump with an Evinrude engine on it. Circa 1942. I am thinking the pump in overkill66's post predates that.
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Old 01-29-2018, 07:56:28 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Evinrude Water Pump - Antique

Andrew, what's wrong with modern 2 cycle oils? I've been running them in my boat for 24 years with no problem, I've had a single cylinder Lockwood Ash, a twin, a Nadler twin, and a St. Lawrence twin, some of the trips were 30 miles round trip, when can I expect the trouble to show up? The manufacturer recommends a pint to 5 gallons, I do cut it down to a pint in 4 gallons.
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Old 01-30-2018, 06:46:38 AM
Overkill66 Overkill66 is offline
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Default Re: Evinrude water pump - antique

Thank you so much!! That is great information! I am wondering if there is a book on older engines like this I could learn from?
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Old 01-30-2018, 12:55:40 PM
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Default Re: Evinrude Water Pump - Antique

I just did a Google Smokstak Search (lower left bottom of your screen) for Evinrude Pump.

Look what came back!

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157220

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32435

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159236

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12639

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175719

Plus many more. Smokstak has more than 1.3 million posts so the Google Search (bottom lower left) on our site can help find your information.
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Old 01-30-2018, 03:05:36 PM
Overkill66 Overkill66 is offline
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Default Re: Evinrude Water Pump - Antique

Thank you!
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Old 01-30-2018, 04:27:57 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Evinrude Water Pump - Antique

JB, to answer your question, modern lubricants are for 'modern' engines. Most 'newer' boat engines use roller bearings. The older ones, like the Evenrude pictured, use a soft bronze con rod and bushings. The new lubricants are cut with mineral spirits, and do not have enough 'body' to properly lube the older engines. They are also made for ratios of 32:1 or more. Simply adding more lubricant will not help the ratio or lubricating ability. If you open a crankcase of an engine using modern lubes, you will find a dry case! Most of the older engines need this residual oil for lubrication. Some engines actually have a dipper to pick up this deposited oil, to assist in lubrication (Jacobsen 4 Acre for example). These older engines need OIL for lubrication, either SAE 30 or 40 NON Detergent, or a TCW-3 OIL OILs are not cut to provide mixing ability. You have to shake up the fuel can at every use. One other thing about lubricants -they are made for engines that run in excess of 4,000 RPM. The Evenrude pictured in Overkill66's post probably cannot exceed 3500 RPM at best, thus between that and the materials the engine is made of, determines that oil is to be used. As for your boat engines, they are using a 32:1 ratio in your engines. From the looks of it, your specification requires 40:1. 'Modern' engine requirement. The extra lube you are giving your engines probably is helping with wear issues. I would do the same for any engine using 40 or 50:1. For your engines, I would keep an eye on the exhaust ports. With the little bit of extra lube, you may find carbonization to become an issue over time. In today's world, though, you have to be careful! The latest saws and power equipment have carbs designed to use a specific lube mix. They are jetted for that ratio, and nothing more! Add extra lube, and you risk melt down due to excess heating from the excess lube, and the fact that less gas is in the mix also causes a lean condition. A shop looking at a burned piston and scored cylinder, can tell exactly what was the cause! Both Stihl and Redmax have specific fuel test kits to determine age of fuel, oil ratio, and alcohol content. More than 10% alky, no warrenty! My son has found up to 27% alky in fresh pump regular gas! Too much lube - no warrenty. Unless the specified lubricant ratio is in the fuel, you are out of luck! If the gas is more than 30 days old - no warrenty! i know at least the Stihl test kit will also give the amount of water in the fuel as well. Water in the gas -forget warrenty work!
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:59:58 AM
johnsonseahorse johnsonseahorse is offline
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Default Re: Evinrude water pump - antique

I have one these too. I think it a DD model. If you look at the engine flange you should come up two letters and the serial number. I believe there were different versions of these and my pump is little different.
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:26:38 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Evinrude water pump - antique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
I would run it on a 12:1 mix - 3/4 cup SAE 30 non-detergent or TCW-3 oil to 1 gallon high test gas. DO NOT use modern synthetics or 1 mix fuels! Andrew
I don't understand. You say don't use modern oils or synthetics and then go on to recommend TCW-3. ??? That's a modern oil. And what is wrong with synthetics? Synthetics in the U.S. are not "manmade" oils. It only refers to the number of times the base stock has been refined. Oils are classified by group number. Group 1,2,3,4 and 5. 3,4 and 5 are the synthetics. There are no group 5 oils made in America. There are only a couple of group 4 oils in America. Everything else pretty much falls in group 2 or 3. They are not thinner just more refined. The main differences in oils today are the number of times refined and the additive package. All oils must meet a minimum standard. Even cheap ass oils today are superior than oils of the past. It won't be too far into the future that "conventional" oils will no longer be available.
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:48:50 PM
JoeCB JoeCB is offline
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Default Re: Evinrude Water Pump - Antique

From one that runs a few old (1920- 30'ish) Evinrude, Johnson and Caille outboards. I have always used the TWC- 3 oil BUT at the old recommended lub ratios. I typically run 8:1 ( 1 PT/ Gal) in the old motors. The modern oils burn much cleaner than the old 30 - 40 W stuff. Some guys do mix in some of the straight oil, believing that it helps with crankcase sealing.

Joe B
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