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Antique Autos and Trucks

1936 Ford Truck


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  #1  
Old 06-05-2009, 11:11:44 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Question 1936 Ford Truck

I am working on a 1936 Ford utility truck for the Newark Fire Dept., here in NJ. The truck was used in their light division to illuminate fire scenes. It has been in inside storage for about 20 years, and now has gained the interest of the Fire Department historic society. My job was/is to get it running, which I have done. It appears to have a bad head gasket. Does anyone have info on what engine this truck has? I cannot find an original Ford builders plate. Can you tell me where I might find it on the truck? I am also trying to find what engine this is. It is a flat head V-8. right now, it has Champion J-8 plugs (14mm), are these correct? The engine has a dual point distributer, direct drive off the camshaft, and is battery and coil operated, not magneto. The engine also has a dual bore downdraft zenith carb. Any info appreciated!
Thanks in advance
Andrew
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:43:44 AM
F6Forrest F6Forrest is offline
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Default Re: '36 Ford truck

If it has 17 head bolts it is a 60 hp
21 or 24 it is 90-100 hp
J8 could be correct
Good info and a bunch of great guys and knowledge at
http://www.fordbarn.com/earlyv8/forum03/ev8forum.htm
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  #3  
Old 06-05-2009, 12:55:29 PM
Reggie Goolsby Reggie Goolsby is offline
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Default Re: '36 Ford truck

Try mac's auto parts. They have parts and catalogues for all the old fords. 1-800-777-0948 or www.macsautoparts.com.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:37:29 PM
Tom Kilgore Tom Kilgore is offline
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Default Re: '36 Ford truck

champion says RH10c or H10C regards TOM
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:47:38 AM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: '36 Ford truck

There're several Ford truck forums; they'll probably come up if you Google ford truck forums...
Everything's available for these; you could probably build a brand new one from the ground up if the money didn't run out...
Good luck.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:35:45 PM
Rene Elliott Rene Elliott is offline
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Default Re: '36 Ford truck

About 15 years ago at the ATHS convention in Buffalo I ran into a collector named Phil Gravelle from Ontario who was a bigtime 1936 Ford fanatic, he even had a Marmon Herrington/Cunningham? halftrack conversion. I don't know if he is still around but he could tell you anything you ever wanted to know about 1936 Fords.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:47:03 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Thumbs up Re: '36 Ford truck

Thanks for all the tips. I have not been back to check the head bolt count, will be there tomorrow. The ignition is dual point, and from what I have uncovered so far, belongs to a '46-'48 built engine. The distributer body does not have 2 caps like I have seen so far on the early engines. Was this set up a retrofit on the '36, or is this an engine swop situation? Was this distributer used on trucks before auto use? I have also found that the truck was actually out of service over 40 years! It was on display at the Newark Museum for over 25 years, until recently removed. Info I have found confirms Tom's posting about the Champion H-10 application. The J-8 is 14mm - 3/8" reach, and the H-10 is 1/2" The J8s will work, but set the spark point further away from the combustion chamber. They are also a cooler running plug, meant for air cooled engines. The H-10s are a little hotter in the heat range, a good thing as the J8s were carboned pretty well. I have not been happy on the H-10s performance in the ALF V-12 engines I have worked on, so I bought the Autolite equivalent for the Ford. We will see what happens! Plug gap recommendation is smaller than expected as well, being only .025" I hole that the small gap provides enough umph to light off the crappy E-10 fuel we have to use.
Andrew
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:10:59 PM
Francis Francis is offline
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Default Re: '36 Ford truck

Andrew,
Here is link to a Ford site which I have found to be very helpful in determining various Ford engine configurations - http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...gs_engines.htm
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:35:50 AM
F6Forrest F6Forrest is offline
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Default Re: '36 Ford truck

Champion plugs as of late have been hit or miss as to reliability, I switched to Autolite 216's and my 51 flathead runs much better.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:08:06 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: '36 Ford truck

Update on the light truck: The engine has 24 bolts on the heads, the casting on the bell housing makes me believe the engine is a 1942. That still leaves the mystery of why this engine has a '46-'48 model distributer and cap set up. I had to pull the distributer cap out as 5 of the ignition wires were burned up to the point they would not carry spark reliably. The contacters inside the cap had to be sanded and cleaned - they were severely burnt. The dual points had to be cleaned - badly oxidised on the lower set. Truck now has great spark. Got it running, but suspect the crappy E-10 has don in the fuel pump diaphram. Changed the oil, as the oil in it smelled varnished, although it was clean and still felt 'oiley'. Engine took 4 quarts, no filter on engine. I ran it in the parade at the NFD muster las weekend. Seems the engine has compression issues on two cylinders - possible bad head gasket. I and the truck were featured in a firefighters trade magazine http://1strespondernews.com/webpages...8-b89c6f21478b
Andrew
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2009, 11:31:30 AM
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John Hamilton John Hamilton is offline
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Default Re: 1936 Ford Truck

The flathead forum is at fordbarn http://www.fordbarn.com/earlyv8/forum03/ev8forum.htm Fordbarn also has a market section.

Mac Auto which was referenced above has fuel pump kits and everything else you need. Ford trucks went from 21 stud to 24 stud in 1938, a year ahead of the cars. Keep this in mind while ordering parts. If you order a 1936 gasket you will get the 21 stud version.
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:26:22 PM
F6Forrest F6Forrest is offline
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Default Re: 1936 Ford Truck

There's a vendor on the Fordbarn-KenCT-he has the GOOD fuel pump diaphrams and carb power valves that will work with the new gas. BEWARE of Chinese parts, they don't last.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:04:23 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: 1936 Ford Truck

Update: I received the last 24 bolt copper head gaskets VanPelt had in stock! I also got in the fuel pump diaphram. Hopefully I will get back to the old light truck within the week. I will have to rebuild the carb, as when the fuel pump diaphram went south, its and bits got into the carb, causing it to flood. Hopefully, just a clean up will be all it needs. The shop that cleaned the fuel tank has told my son that the tank has more holes in the base than Carter has pills! They are going to seal it with a new product they have for repairing tanks.
Andrew
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:45:41 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: 1936 Ford Truck

Andrew,

You speak of the parts that do not seam right for the engine in the fire truck. Remember the Flathead Ford V-8 was the small block Chevy of it's day. Parts fit a wide number of years. There has been a resurgence of interest in the FLATTY V-8 in street rod over the past few year. Take a look at what is offered by SPEEDY BILL at speedwaymotors.com

Kent
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:52:53 AM
John Mackey John Mackey is offline
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Default Re: 1936 Ford Truck

I dont recall the casting number, but it came back as a 42 MERC 24 bolt flat head... Odd, being that it is in a 1938 fire truck... I am thinking it was a replacement, with no record from the City of Newark, as engine repairs just ahd repair tickets, with no detailed info, just costs... THe original paperwork stated the motor was an 80 hp model, which the Merc was not... The Merc is rated at 100... More research is needed... I will post pix as soon as I get my camera emptied out!!! lol


John
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:57:01 AM
John Mackey John Mackey is offline
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Default Re: 1936 Ford Truck

:::EDIT::: The fire truck is a 1936 not a 1938! lol... sorry!


John
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Old 07-18-2009, 09:49:30 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: 1936 Ford Truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by F6Forrest View Post
......................snip..........carb power valves that will work with the new gas. BEWARE of Chinese parts, they don't last.
F6:

I wonder how many people have torn out their hair because the power "economizer" valve diaphragm was leaking. If they just leak a little, you can't get the engine to idle no matter how much else you do.

For those who don't know what the economizer valve is, it is the valve that turns on the high speed jets when vacuum drops to a predetermined point. If the diaphragm leaks, fuel will dribble out of the main jets and mess up idle.

The economizer valve is underneath the float chamber. Remove the cast-iron base of the carb to find it.

When I was a kid, I worked on a lot of flatheads!

Take care - Elden
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Old 07-21-2009, 02:27:23 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: 1936 Ford Truck

On the point of finding a Merc engine in a Ford, that is very common; probably thousands of people stuck in Merc engines for more power.
We had it done ourselves, in a 41/42 Ford COE dump that'd gotten very tired; salvage yard owner offered to drop in later Merc cheaper than overhaul of ours, said we wouldn't believe the difference, and he was right!! That thing would really go with the Merc engine. Must've been in early 50's.
Don't recall now if it was a straight drop-in or if modifications needed, but recollection is that it was simple, and in that COE (big engine house between the seats) there wasn't much room for fiddling connections.
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:00:28 PM
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Default Re: 1936 Ford Truck

If I recollect correctly, the 49 - 53 Mercury engine had a ¼" longer stroke than the Ford engine. Thus, it had more horse power. Another technique used was to use Ford heads on the Mercury engine to increase combustion ratio as both stock engines came with the same compression ratio.
Another advantage of using 49 - 53 Ford/Mercury engine is the location of the distributor - much easier to service.
Again if my memory hasn't failed me, when installing a late model flat head Ford engine into an early model car, the front motor mounts had to be slightly modified.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:09:15 PM
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Thumbs up Re: 1936 Ford Truck

Sounds like you have an intersting project on your hands there.

When I first read what it had for a carb and then when you said it only had one distributer cap I figured it had either been retrofitted or had a newer engine put in.

1936 Ford truck should have had the 21 stud 85hp V8 with a Stromberg 97 carb with a dual point, dual cap, distributer with the coil bolted to the top of the distributer with the whole assembly bolted dirrectly in front of the camshaft. I assume yours has the adaptor that runs a more modern style distributor that sticks out towards the passenger side head ? My 51 Ford had that style, but it was a single point, not dual.

With the normally low milage put on fire trucks I though it strange that it would have needed to be changed, but then remembered that even though the miles were low, they would have lots of hours on the engines. Early flatheads only had three main bearings and four rod bearings with a single bearing used on a pair of rods spinning on the crankshaft AND in the rods. If your truck is geared as low as mine with a 6.66:1 rear end gear, you're spinning over 4,000RPM at 60MPH in a bigger truck with 20 inch rims. You didn't specify if your utility body was based on the 1/2 ton or the 1 ton chassis so you may have a totally different gear than I do. Running at 4 grand and higher it's hard to keep bearing in them which could be one of the reasons why it was changed to a newer motor.

Mine had the bottom end rebuilt at least 7 times before I got it and twice by me (I now drive it 45MPH intead of 60-65MPH). One of the previous owners had a grain box on it and had a bad habit of forgetting to check the oil after taking a load to the elevator. They'd tip the truck up to dump the grain, and in the process would dump the oil out as there are no rear main seals in the early ones either, just a baffle arrangement on the crankshaft and oilpan. They'd drive the truck home and spin a bearing once in a while because of that.
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