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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Associated Hired Man - save the engine


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  #1  
Old 08-13-2010, 12:15:46 AM
rockisland3h rockisland3h is offline
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Default Associated Hired Man - save the engine

i have an associated hired man that just wont run no matter what i do so know its time for expert help. i started with all new gaskets and rings, followed buy rebuilding the ignitor and new battery and coil. i then cleaned the carb again since when i bought it had a fairbanks carb on it i bought an original carb on ebay cleaned it and put it on the engine with the original check valve that i got with the engine, the needle valve is clean and everything works as it should the engine will start and run great for between 2-10 mins then die and i just dont understand what im doing wrong any help please.
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Old 08-13-2010, 07:19:42 AM
Adam Hartz Adam Hartz is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

When the engine dies what happens? Does it seem to be out of gas, or loose spark? Are you able to restart it right after it dies or do you have to wait?
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:31:09 AM
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Walt Beeman Walt Beeman is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

Two quick things to check are your check valve and is your gas cap vented, if it is not vented you will have to loosen it, otherwise the engine will flood and/or lean out. Did you replace the mica insulators on the ignitor, sometimes they short out from carbon build up. Make sure your ignitor shaft "snaps" back after tripping, sometimes you have to wind the spring another half turn, this will be more evident when the engine warms up and things expand. Good Luck, keep us posted.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:05:43 AM
rockisland3h rockisland3h is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

i belive the cap is vented ill check when it dies it just dies i cant tell if it losses spark or not, i bench tested the ignitor and its got good hot spark, no usually after it dies i have to reprime it and so more than lickly its a problem in the fuel area but i just dont know where.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:32:06 AM
ar2stp48 ar2stp48 is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

How quickly can you restart it when it dies? What kind of coil are you using? I would try a different coil as it could be breaking down. And , I would inspect the check valve; you mentioned using the original.

Good luck and happy cranking
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Old 08-13-2010, 12:15:32 PM
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

Do you have any pictures of the fuel tank and check valve positions, Associated's are plumbed up a little different than "normal" engines, they even require a special check valve. Did you have this engine running before you did the work you mentioned?
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Old 08-13-2010, 01:19:24 PM
Martin Gaudet Martin Gaudet is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

Hi Walt,
I had an international 3 hp that had the smaller ignitor spring not set right. After 10 minutes, it would stop. It would stop too, if I oiled the ignitor shaft with it running. The points would open too much, and stop the arc too soon. The larger spring winds up the trip hammer, and the smaller one holds the points open .020 or so. Cheers!
Martin
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Old 08-13-2010, 01:31:24 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

something else that one of the guys had mentioned in a different thread. Is the engine bouncing around when running(running fast,not bolted down,ect) causing the check valve to unseat itself? Bob
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Old 08-13-2010, 03:14:50 PM
rockisland3h rockisland3h is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

i ran ran the plumbing inline like the pics show for on other associateds since the carbs arnt suckers,

---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

and yes it ran before the work but it had the wrong carb and then the rings when bad because the guy who had if before me ran it a long time with out the oiler on and the rings seated, but i got it all fixed did all the work it has great compression, the coil is an old six volt car coil i dont know but i am going to change over to a twelve volt i got a brand new coil and 12volt battery, my grandpa thinks the ignitors hanging up but i havent checkd
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:05:54 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

How do you have the coil wired? Bob
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:16:42 PM
rockisland3h rockisland3h is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

ground direct from battery to ignitor, hot to a knife switch then to the coil , out other side of coil to the ignitor. same way all my grandfathers engines are wired.
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:34:50 PM
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

Your 6 volt coil should be fine, that is what I use with a 12 volt battery on my Associateds, just ground the high tension side of the coil to it's metal case. Do you have your ignitor set so that the contacts are normally apart, if not your coil could get hot and break down internally. If your engine originally had a mag on it, the contacts are probably set to normally closed, you should switch that around when using a battery and coil. I connect an ammeter in series with the coil, or I use a battery charger with one in place of the battery and I watch for the gage to jump when the ignitor trips. I usually see around 2 amps +/- when it trips, if you don't see the gage jump check your ignitor. This will give you an idea if the trouble is spark related. When the engine dies try immediately turning it over and check for compression, sometimes a valve will not seat due to sticking, weak spring or a chunk of carbon in the seat. If the ammeter showed current draw and you didn't loose compression then your fuel system is probably the cause, most likely your check valve, if not that, see if you have a screen filter in the tank that is plugged or any junk in the fuel line, it won't take much to hang up the check valve. Do you see gas coming from the bottom of the mixer when it dies, that is usually caused by a check valve problem or you're too rich on your needle setting. There's a few things to check out. Keep us posted.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:24:17 PM
rockisland3h rockisland3h is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

the ignitor has always been set for battery, i belive its in the coil, the points are always apart but i bench tested the ignitor again and i get spark some times and then i dont so i belive the problem is all in the ignition, when it dies the fuel dosent run out, and the tank was just cleaned, and fresh fuel line so the check ball is working and in the mixture issue i dont have any smoke at all when it fires, so i dont know but the only thing i can think of is the coil because the ignitors fresh rebuilt and the battery is brandnew.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:54:46 PM
Dave Nielsen Dave Nielsen is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

I know my dads Assocciated likes to run on the rich side . It`s a 3 Mule Team. It will run great as long as its blowing a little black smoke.I have run into a problem with my igniter on my 2 1/2 hp Economy where the igniter will stick when the engines warms up. I`m not saying this is your problem, but its easy to check if its hanging up on you. Dave
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:47:39 PM
rockisland3h rockisland3h is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

well guys i think i got the problem ironed out i took the gas cap off the tank and the dang engine ran perfect for an hour and half then i had shut it down because my parents wanted me inside instead of the shop during this dang thunderstorm, i plan on pulling it out tommorow and leting it run as long as it wants.

thanks for all the advice.
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:43:40 AM
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

Glad you got it fixed. Thanks for letting us know what you found.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:39:44 PM
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Terry Beasley Terry Beasley is offline
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Default Re: Associated Hired Man - save the engine

Ive had the same problem with all of the repo Associated gas tanks I have bought. No vent on the gas cap. Even worse it can cause the fuel tank to pressurise and flood the engine and blow fuel everywhere. I replaced all of my caps with early Briggs caps that are vented.
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