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Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?


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  #1  
Old 04-07-2019, 12:45:36 AM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

Hi all!

Question for the experts here. The original "cable tube" (part number E-178) used to hold the spark plug wires on the 20-35 was a "fiber tube" and according to the parts book is 1" O.D. and 2'-1" long. It is held in place with two "cable tube clips" (part number E-179), which are just simple sheet metal strap brackets that bolt onto the head studs and wrap around the tube.

I have at last one original example of these fiber tubes on my 20-35 from near Minot ND. Of course it is not in great shape after being in the weather for over 90 years. So I'm not sure what it is exactly.

My question is: What are these fiber tubes? They are not hard rigid, but rather at least semi flexible. They are not rubber. And of course not metal of any sort (as many are replaced with in current restorations I have seen). I am puzzled as to what material these are??

Is there any modern equivalent to what these are/were? Searching "fiber tube" only brings up a bunch of carbon fiber tube search results. I'm trying to figure out what I can use for an accurate restoration.

I assume this fiber tube was used on other tractors and machinery of that time as well?

Thanks!

---------- Post added at 11:45:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21:00 PM ----------

Hummmm... could this be it?

"Vulcanized Fibre"

http://sterlingplasticsinc.com/mater...canized-fibre/

The original tube is kinda gray in color.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:29:52 AM
Jake Jacobs Jake Jacobs is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

Try this website https://www.franklinfibre.com/vulcanized_fiber.html. Common mane is fish paper. An old welding helmet would have been made of fish paper. Common insulating material. Still used today. Gray in color.
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:15:12 AM
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

I would bet it is phenolic tube. It was used extensively in the first half of the 1900's for insulating and isolating purposes. I have also seen gears made from it in low torque applications where noise was trying to be reduced. Phenolic is basically paper or canvas and glue pressed into a tube or sheet. I buy mine from Mcmaster-Carr. They have a big selection.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:13:42 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

Thanks,
So doing a little more reading I am a bit confused. Some sources say phenolic is water proof, but McMasterCarr says these products are not for outdoor use. So what is that about?

Link to McMasterCarr:
https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic-tubing
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:07:38 PM
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

I would say it is water resistant. I have used it quite a bit and have not had trouble with moisture. Granted I have never submerged a piece but I don't think it would hurt it. I have an old piece that I know is 60+ years old and has been wet. It still looks new. I would use the canvas phenolic over paper if you are worried about moisture. PS, do you have a cousin named Kirk that works for CP in St Paul?
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:44:03 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

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Originally Posted by turbo View Post
I would say it is water resistant. I have used it quite a bit and have not had trouble with moisture. Granted I have never submerged a piece but I don't think it would hurt it. I have an old piece that I know is 60+ years old and has been wet. It still looks new. I would use the canvas phenolic over paper if you are worried about moisture. PS, do you have a cousin named Kirk that works for CP in St Paul?
Good to know. It is kind of protected up under the hood, and once I restore these tractors they will be in the barn. Only some project ones are outside for the time being. So water probably isn't that much of an issue. I might just order up one and try it, as they are not that expensive. I'll see what else is suggested before I jump the gun though. Thanks!
And yeah, Kirk is my Brother-in-law. I know it's a small world, but how did you know that
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:41:41 PM
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

I work with him here in St Paul. A while back he found out about what I did for a hobby and he was showing me pictures of your projects. I figured it was you by the 6-12 project you have. You donít see them every day!!
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:55:34 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

It's a very small world plus we are ALL watching you Jacob.
Well, we are. Kinda.
Then, at least I can go about my foolishness quietly...
Bwahahaha!
Starting to unearth little details, even with your brand of tractors? I'm kidding about the brand name bit..
Priceless. True.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:19:55 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

Ok Turbo, it is all coming together now, you must be the guy he mentions that has the huge collection of engines. Funny how the Stack brings us all together in the end. I don't make it over to their/your neck of the woods often, but it would be fun to meet up some day.

Oh Duey, we are all going about our foolishness. Gotta give each other something to laugh at. You study your TC manuals, I'll study my AC manuals, and we'll have a meeting to compare notes at the end. Their might even be a test
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:53:50 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

Hahaha! So true about things to laugh about.
Oh oh, I'm really poor at tests.
No wait. Let's do it!
Duey ponders the question after the announcer asks: "Du, what's the part number for the 21-32 TC tractor early intake manifold assy?" "Ummm. Green?" Oh I'm sorry Duey. That's not the right answer.
Announcer asks: Jacob? Jacob says "FE 288B". Announcer says "That's correct. You move to the next round."
There's always room for a bit of silly my Allis Chalmers friend. Remember who built a 1500 horse engine? Allis Chalmers. Who built the steel to support the new building for the engine? MS&M perhaps.
Like Red Green says "We're all in this together."
Still priceless Jacob.
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:46:31 PM
Charlie1925 Charlie1925 is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

Jacob Wi. More laughs; Back in 2011 when I was doing the engine work on my AC model " L " I made one of these spark wire tubes out of a old peace of PVC. I was waiting to see if it would melt from the heat, But I never found out because when I was putting everything together I found out that the wires were a little to short, so the tube was never used, Just used the same clamps to hold the wires and all is well. Did you see anything missing when you saw the tractor? Best of luck on all your tractor projects. Just a little fun on my end. Go to ( You Tube ) and type in ( 1925 Allis Chalmers model " L " ) and see 3 videos of my tractor. I would put them on my thread but I don`t know how, Maybe some day someone will show me how to do that. Roger Weinhold AKA Charlie 1925
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:44:20 PM
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob WI View Post
Ok Turbo, it is all coming together now, you must be the guy he mentions that has the huge collection of engines. Funny how the Stack brings us all together in the end. I don't make it over to their/your neck of the woods often, but it would be fun to meet up some day.

Oh Duey, we are all going about our foolishness. Gotta give each other something to laugh at. You study your TC manuals, I'll study my AC manuals, and we'll have a meeting to compare notes at the end. Their might even be a test
Do you go to the Lesuer swap meet? We have a permanent spot 2 rows exactly north of Lightning Magneto. Stop in and say hi if you are around. We are there Thursday to Sunday. Ill have Kirk give you my cell #.
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Old 04-27-2019, 01:17:51 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

So a little update with this part of the project. I was home for the long Easter weekend and got some tractor time in. Took these pics of my original fiber spark plug tube.

Links to pics:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KATanVPfxz9jeR2q8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SrrVJy9HeuT5zKz27
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vXYirmNm9Wv9ZGq87

Still don't know for sure what it is.

So I ended up ordering the
8640K181 Easy-to-Machine Garolite LE Tube, 40" Long, 1" OD, 3/4" ID
From McMaster Carr. Seems to be the same kind of stuff, and I'm happy with how it looks. I'll post pics of the finished product once we are done.

The 20-35 parts manual says that it is 2'-1" long. My original is like 23 3/4" long, so pretty close. We'll make it to the parts manual specs.

Not 100% sure what configuration of holes it should have? We are guessing the 4 holes (which are 5/8" in my original tube) that are on the bottom (so water drains out?) are original? The hole in the side towards the rear appears to be added later, it's not as clean cut of hole. Logic says that if there were 4 holes from factory, it could have been installed either way (idiot proof). Thoughts?
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:31:53 AM
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Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

I checked the one on my '28 20-35 and it has 4 holes to the top at each spark plug. The wires feed in from the back end. I made mine out of plastic water pipe and painted it matte black. The water pipe has the same OD and ID as the original black fiber stuff. I patterned it off of the original which was still on the tractor but was broken in a couple of places. The four wires just fit in the tube and lead out to each spark plug. I don't think you need to worry about water drain holes as the tube is open at both ends and tucked up under the hood so water shouldn't be an issue.
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:19:27 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Fiber tube for 20-35 Allis spark plug wires?

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Originally Posted by Phil Johnson View Post
I checked the one on my '28 20-35 and it has 4 holes to the top at each spark plug. The wires feed in from the back end. I made mine out of plastic water pipe and painted it matte black. The water pipe has the same OD and ID as the original black fiber stuff. I patterned it off of the original which was still on the tractor but was broken in a couple of places. The four wires just fit in the tube and lead out to each spark plug. I don't think you need to worry about water drain holes as the tube is open at both ends and tucked up under the hood so water shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks for checking yours out Phil! Four holes it is then, it is nice to confirm these little details with a couple other original examples. I know I am a bit touched with trying to get all these details just so, but I truly feel it is my job to try to do these antique machines the justice they deserve. After all, like it has been said before on this site, we are only the caretakers of these pieces of history. They were here long before I came to be, and they should be around long after I'm gone if I have anything to say about it. So I try to keep the details correct for the next generation.

And holes up vs down I did wonder about. Up made more sense as far as wire routing. I think I'll go holes on top as well. It shouldn't see too much weather while it's under my ownership. So water should't be much of an issue. I do plan to do a bit of an experiment with the cutoff of the new tube. Put a piece outside in the weather to see how it holds up being in the elements over time.
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