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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir


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  #61  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:45:05 PM
casertractor casertractor is offline
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Great Thread Uncle G.the pictures and Literature are Great aswell.John
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:18:36 PM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Rick those pictures are amazing.

Those Goold, Shapley & Muir have something that the model looke close to the Hart Parr 40-80 model.

Keep them coming.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:31:10 PM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
What is the total number of GS&M tractors known to date?
We know of 3 of the 35-22 Ideal (third series), 1 of the 24-12 Ideal Junior, the makings of a 50-25 Ideal and roughly 12-15 Beavers.

And Ross - where the heck have you been?
A few years back, a neighbour heard I was going to Saskatchewan and she had me take a truck load of stuff out to a relative of hers. He had a few old tractors there including the chassis of a Beaver - he gave me the plough adjusting device and that was about the only casting left on it. So that might have been the one Ron knew of? When that chap died, he actually left a note that I should get that chassis! I ended up telling a chap about it who worked for WDM North Battleford who was putting together a Beaver!
All the GS&M tractors used the ring-gear type master gear. The wheels on the later Ideal Juniors are definitely the same as on the Beavers and they just switched from building the one to the other I guess!
Just remembered this story that was in an old E&E magazine. It was by E.R. Potter and he had bought a used Ideal hopper type to clear some brushy land in SK. Not the best picture but you can see he put a radiator on her as he said the hoppers and inside the cylinders had been all scaled up and with the heavy work, she needed more cooling!
RM.
PS - just added a bit more info on the British tractors to post #57.
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  #64  
Old 01-03-2013, 04:44:24 PM
Randy Kvill Randy Kvill is offline
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Ross, good observation, but all but one of the illustrations and photos that Rick has posted so far appear to be the larger hopper cooled tractor. Except of course the narrow front end unit. There is no way of knowing for sure if the front axle in ours is the original, unless we can find literature that shows one like it. It is an old repaint of a decent tractor that may have had some running repairs or replacements. If it is not the original, it is very well done. It also does not use the famous rack steering that Rick has posted. It is likely one of the late ones. Perhaps Rick has more literature that will show more. I would have to dig into ours, but not sure that we have anything Rick doesn't already have.

Randy
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  #65  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:55:22 PM
casertractor casertractor is offline
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Rick what is the time frame these tractors were produced in (years)?.John

Last edited by casertractor; 01-04-2013 at 12:06:54 AM.
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  #66  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:06:48 PM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Boys, Boys, Boys!
Don't get ahead of me! As said earlier in this thread, this is going to take a while. The Ideal Junior and Beaver tractor stuff will come in time.
I have learned from the greatest - The Brothers Clemens. Create a little mystery and do it a little at a time. And us older guys don't have the wind to do it all at once anymore!
As for John's question - they started making tractors about 1909 - when did they finish - oh, we shall see!
But here's an interesting picture to hold things over. Not the clearest, it is from the Manitoba Ag Museum and shows a tractor school at the Manitoba Ag College in 1912! Name them tractors and engines!
RM.
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  #67  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:32:05 PM
Walter Neumann jr Walter Neumann jr is offline
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

G is that you in bottom left wearing the tie
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  #68  
Old 01-04-2013, 04:42:13 AM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Neumann jr View Post
G is that you in bottom left wearing the tie
Walter,

Think you are right.
Wel he is standing sure very proud in front of the tractor.

Great picture have seen it already in the AP in one of the wonderful story’s of Rick.

And Rick you are right do not post to much at once.
Let them hang for an while.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:35:27 AM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Here are a few odds n' ends before we get to the Ideal Junior stuff. Came across these yesterday while sorting papers.
The one is another view of the Reynolds-Alberta Ideal from an earlier time.
No data on the ploughing scene other than it is a Cockshutt engine gang plough.
A couple also of some of the works layout. first pic is in the west side of Clarence St. in Brantford. There are apartment buildings there now I think. And the tractor erecting shop is on the east side. The railway still goes along there but I think the last of the old GS&M buildings disappeared in the 1970s.
And Walter and Chris - wearing a tie on these old tractors with all the open gears and such might not be the best of ideas! I have to be careful starting and not wear a loose smock as you might become more intimate with the tractor than you would like when she lights up!
RM
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:53:41 PM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

A couple more notes before moving on to the later tractors.
Some testimonials from catalogues. Testimonials are funny things and you wonder if the actual owners wrote them in or company agents made them up! Anyway, they carry a lot of interest. I followed up on most of these looking for parts - found a few places where they knew what I was talking about but never found any parts - one place, a set of fenders had remained but went to scrap a year before I got there!
Feb - 1911 - Manitoba -
Re the 20-28 H.P. Traction Engine purchased from you in May, 1910. I have found your double opposed cylinder far superior to other types, developing a greater percentage of power with an equal amount of gasoline.
Have broken 150 acres of scrub gumbo land, disced 300 acres and ploughed 175 acres stubble covering my season's operations.
I must compliment you on your improved steering device which is far superior to the chain used on the other Traction Engines. The wave cleats on the driving wheel prevent 20 per cent less slipping area than the straight cleats and further, they do not pack the land to as great extent.
Shall be pleased to demonstrate your Engine to any person who intends purchasing an Engine.

Feb 1911 - Saskatchewan -
Our 45 Brake H.P. Ideal Traction Engine will pull eight 14 inch Cockshutt plows, plowing stubble on level land right along every day satisfactorily.
Our land being rolling, we use six 14 inch Cockshutt plows, plowing 6 and 7 inches deep with a float and packer behind the plows.
It will drive a 34-54 Garr Scott Separator.
Neither of us have ever operated a Gasoline Engine before, but its simple construction makes it easy for the beginner.

Those are from a 1911 catalogue. The pictures were in that catalogue but I can't say for 100% that they are the exact tractors being talked about?
RM.
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  #71  
Old 01-05-2013, 03:52:36 PM
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Smile Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Rick keep the Cockshutt company involved.


Not so long ago have been stumblin in an old archief on very old pictures of the Red Cross Cockshutts.
Taking about 7 new undiscovered pictures of the unloading of the Red Cross Cockshutts from the Dutch Ship the Prince Wilhelm of the Canadian Dutch Orange line.

Sure this is an Steel Wheeled chanel but i want to post one of the pictures inside your Canadian Goold, Shapley and Muir story as an memory to the Wonderful Cockshutt company..

Here it is.
On the back side you can see the ship Prince Wilhelm.
There is an Red Cross Cockshutt 20 hanging in the crane.
An Red Cross Cockshutt 30 in the front.
And an Red Cross Massey Harris Combine in the back.

Keep the storys and pictures coming,

Chris
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:16:57 PM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Thanks Chris,
GS&M had a working relationship with Cockshutt - their factories were a few blocks apart in Brantford. GS&M made stationary engines that were painted red and sold with the Cockshutt name tag and lettering. I don't know whether Cockshutt had much to do with selling GS&M tractors although Waterloo Manufacturing Co., Waterloo, Ontario was an agent for them at one time. GS&M seemed to be able to provide a Cockshutt plough with their new tractor sales.
The Massey-Harris combines were made in Toronto. In later years, under Massey-Ferguson, they moved the combine plant to Brantford. It closed in the early 1980s and they were making combines and 4 wheel drive tractors.
Aloha,
RM.

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  #73  
Old 01-06-2013, 06:33:38 AM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Thanks Rick post an coople more specialy for you.

They are so rare and beautiful.....

Not 100 % sure but it coult also be an Canadian Massey Harris combine ?.
Well sure most off the tractors where Red Cross Cockshutts

Keep the pictures and storys coming

Chris
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:00:50 AM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Okay, a few more tesimonials, this time from a 1915 catalogue.
April 22, 1915 - Manitoba -
With reference to the 35 H.P. Traction Engine I purchased from your three years ago ... have used this engine for ploughing, breaking and threshing, and to-day it is as good as new. I ran a case 32-54 Steel Separator, and had all the power I wanted. We kept six stook teams busy. We pulled four Cockshutt breaking bottoms 14", and six stubble plows and did a first class job in each case.

April 19, 1915 - Manitoba -
Two years ago we purchased through your Winnipeg Branch one of your 35 H.P. Ideal Traction Engines. It has proved to be all that was claimed for it. We run a 32x50 Separator with all attachments to its full capacity. Our average last fall for twenty days stocking threshing was 1400 bus.
We have used it to some extent for stubble plowing but have done very little breaking, but enough to show that it will handle one 24" Jumbo Breaker with ease. In stubble plowing we draw six 14 in. bottom and three sections of drag harrows.
On ninety acres that had to be plowed after a hailstorm on July 20th, 1913, we kept an accurate account of actual running expenses and found that we plowed and harrowed ninety acres for sixty cents per acre. The Engine is always ready for work Winter or Summer.
In closing, we wish to thank your Company for its courtesy and fair dealing and would say to any person thinking of purchasing a Tractor, see the Ideal.

There are several more from Manitoba with similar statements of satisfaction for the 35 hp tractors. And then this one:

April 29, 1915 - Saskatchewan -
With reference to the 22x35 Tractor I got from you in the Summer of 1913, I have been well pleased with it at all work I have used it for.
In the Fall of 1913, I threshed with it and a J.I. Case Threshing Machine 28x50 and in 21 days threshing did something over 27,500 bushels and did not put in long days either as you will remember the bad weather delayed the threshing until late October
I ploughed up forty-six acres of timothy sod and some sloughs with a five furrow S.P. Engine Gang (Cockshutt) and with the stubble boards on too.
She could take the five furrows right along through the tough sloughs four inches deep and the timothy five inches and I believe if I had breakers on she could have taken six just as easily at less cost. I figured this cost about $1.00 per acre and would have been easy one sixth less with the extra plow and another thing, I can turn this Engine so handy round the corners within the fence. I operated plows as well as engine alone.

So, with that last testimonial, there is some intriguing information that has recently surfaced. This is some of the Brothers Clemens style mystery that I mentioned in an earlier post here. So more about that later!
RM

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Old 01-07-2013, 08:42:31 AM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Here's a little bit on the Ideal Junior tractors. I really do not have much on them unfortunately. As mentioned earlier, there were a couple of variations. One had the front wheels set closer but that version didn't seem to last.
They should have been suitable to the smaller farms in Ontario but even when they came out around 1917-18, you were starting to hear of light tractors like the Fordson that were no doubt much, much cheaper.
But as a well known New York tractor collector says - they were cuter than a little pig pissn! They were probably a lovely thing to hear running as well. There is only one known today - in the Reynolds-Alberta Museum at Wetaskiwin. There have been rumours of one in Ontario but it must still be in the back of a shed. Have never come across parts either.
Here's a bit from a catalogue and also a picture of one ploughing at an Ontario match. Some more to come.
RM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:59:46 PM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Rick here are the last ones of the super rare old pictures belonged to historical Canadian Dutch Red Cross Cockshutt story.

Think they fit very well in your thread.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:52:02 PM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

I see that the illustrations that Rick has used have the built up front axle like ours...so ours is probably original.

Randy
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:04:59 PM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothers Clemens View Post
Rick here are the last ones of the super rare old pictures belonged to historical Canadian Dutch Red Cross Cockshutt story.

Think they fit very well in your thread.



Brothers is that a Cockshutt 20 Deluxe or a regular 20?.John
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:25:24 PM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

Appears to be a regular "20" as the Deluxe version had the cream colored hood and red grille.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:49:51 PM
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Default Re: Tractors By Goold, Shapley & Muir

That horrible storm and flood occured at the end of January in 1953. If memory serves, the Cockshutt Deluxe series tractors didn't come out until maybe '56.
That flood was nearly 60 years ago now! I was just a baby in poopy diapers!
We didn't have much Cockshutt equipment on the farm that I can recall, even though we were only about 10 miles or so from the factory. My father said he did have a couple of GS&M motors, though I don't remember them. A larger one was used up in the barn for making feed and a smaller one pumped water. They went for scrap after hydro came in the 1930s.
Really, there were very few Cockshutt tractors in our neighbourhood as there wasn't a very well known dealer handy. We still used horses into the 1960s as did most of the neighbours, even though everyone had a tractor after the war. Dad's first tractor was an 8N Ford, bought new in '52, next door east was a Jubilee Ford. Next door west had Fordsons. Across the road was a Farmall on steel lugs! Threshing was done with a 22-45 Eagle and a neighbour next road over had an 18-36 Hart Parr.
When I got my first GS&M Beaver tractor, my dad was still living and remembered one being in the area. I got a few parts south of here from an old man in his 90s. He lived on a small farm that was good creek bottom land and said he got along real well with the Beaver. The poor old man was killed a couple of years after that - struck by a dump truck while turning into his lane!
RM.
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