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Grove AP206


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  #1  
Old 02-18-2019, 08:26:52 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Grove AP206

A company that I do service work for gave me a Grove AP206 carry deck crane. It quit running and they parked it. It has a Continental TMD27 engine, it's had a history of problems, starting when an oil line broke and damaged the crankshaft. They had the crank ground and it eventually broke. The crank was replaced and it ran several years, finally quit running. The service mechanic isn't impressed with this engine, I haven't picked it up yet, will check compression when I get it. I have a Kubotta engine out of a reeffer unit that will fit physically, will have to adapt everything to make it work. Any opinions on the Continental engine?

Last edited by J.B. Castagnos; 02-18-2019 at 08:53:21 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-18-2019, 11:31:30 PM
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ulgydog56 ulgydog56 is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

don,t know much about this proticulier engine however continental engines were very well engineered work horse motors and parts are easy to find.....p.s show some pics of the engine and crane.....
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2019, 01:40:54 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

I don't have the machine here yet, will post pics when it arrives.
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:27:29 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

Delivered today, a quick check makes me think the engine is locked up, will do a little more testing. Looking around on the net I see where the military used these engines, I'll have to check out the surplus yards.
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:34:11 PM
slip knot slip knot is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

That will be a nice addition. I'm assuming its all hydro driven. match up the pump to the little diesel and go.
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:48:28 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

The crane hydraulics are driven by a pump off of the front of the crank. The rear is coupled to a torque flight trans, that goes to what looks to be a reverser unit then to the differential. Specs show this engine to be 65hp, I think the Kubota is only about 40hp, if I change I'll look for something bigger.
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:32:09 PM
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ulgydog56 ulgydog56 is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

that would be a very handy machine,,,good luck..
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:58:45 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

A wash job did wonders for it, it's been sitting at the mill for a year or so.
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:40:41 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

Wow... i wish I had friends like yours! (I've been wanting a small mobile crane, but SHE says no...

Here's what I see on the Conti: http://www.wiengines.com/product/71

That's about the same class as a big skid-steer, or a modest forklift... mebbie a telehandler. If you're bent on diesel, perhaps you'd find a Perkins from a utility tractor... a Cummins 4BT would be easy to find, but probably a tight fit...

If you're willing to go gasoline or propane... a 181ci GM industrial (MerCruiser 140), or an Allis Chalmers 227 (from a WD-45 or D17 tractor, or a combine!)
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Old 02-24-2019, 04:18:12 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

Had time to check it out today, engine isn't stuck, battery lug was loose on the cable at the starter, solenoid would engage but it wouldn't spin. Got it cranking, lots of black smoke but it never would run. Tried 24 volts, added oil to the cylinders and got it to run for about ten seconds, never would speed up, lots of black smoke. I don't have a compression gauge for it, engine sounds like it has compression, not freewheeling. I'll borrow a gauge this week. The mechanic said it came to the shop not running, they had the head reworked and put new injectors, cylinder walls looked good. I'm thinking maybe injection timing, don't know how it would have gotten off, going to find a manual on it.
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Old 02-24-2019, 04:55:44 PM
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Default Re: Grove AP206

A few things come to mind on this, seems the trouble all started when it was run out of oil. We had a similar experience with older Continental diesel in a Farmall 350. The dealer reground the crank and reassembled it. Thing was they put STD bearings on a Twenty under shaft, it seemed to have enough oil pressure but had a bit of noise and soon broke the crankshaft. When they re paired it again with a new shaft and bearings, they reused the old timing gears, we soon had to send it back for gears, twice! Finally got a different dealer on it and he found the crank gear badly dogeared from all the past mis repairs, that and the fact that the rings were broken and missing chunks of the rings, the missing chunks weren't in the pan, so some one put them in that way and it guzzled oil. After another rebuild by a competent mechanic, it ran good for years. We had another mis repaired version that I got on the cheap from another dealer that gave up on it. The symptoms sounded the same as yours, I finally found the injection pump was 180 degrees out of time. You could pull start it, but it did the same as yours, lots of black smoke and almost no throttle control. I had to take the valve cover off to see when the valves were closed on # 1, then set the pump. I vote for the thought that the last mechanic botched things up, likely more than once.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:01:49 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

I'll do a compression check tomorrow if I can borrow a gauge, I'm going to remove the valve cover and check cam timing, then pump timing. The machine quit running on the job and was brought in to the shop, they never determined why it quit. Looking at the repair manual there were two pumps used, a CAV-DPA and a Stanadyne, I believe I have the Stanadyne.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:08:13 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

Compression, cam timing, and injector timing all look correct. Sent the pump to a Diesel repair, said he found a broken output spring and a problem with a plunger, installed it this evening, no different. It cranks and tries to run, lots of black smoke but won't pick up speed. Tomorrow I'm going to pull the hydraulic pump off, thinking it may be loading the engine up for some reason. It reminds me of a Kubota powered Onan invertor generator we repaired for a friend. The permanent magnet rotor shucked the magnets, removed the generator and ran the engine, no problem. Put a new rotor in it and the engine wouldn't start, cranked and smoked black never gaining speed. Disconnected the wires from the generator to the inverter and it started right up, found one of three large capacitors shorted. I believe this is what pulled the magnets off the rotor.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:18:10 AM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

Removed the hydraulic pump this morning, it fired right up. Engine has a miss, will get it running right and try the pump again.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:49:26 AM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

Good call, I saw that several times when I worked on JLG's. Not always the same cause, but always the engine trying to start while the hyd pump was loaded. Could be a dump valve not opening or even a sequence valve mal functioning. Then of course there is the pump itself, which could be the problem.
I once was tearing my hair out over a problem that turned out to be a 90 deg fitting that wasn't drilled all the way thru. The machine had been run like that for a few years, and went through multiple inspections and it wasn't caught. In this case the fitting was on a valve that was to dump all pressure when the foot safety switch (deadman) was released. It didn't effect operation of the machine, but if a valve had stuck, it was the last line of defense to stop the machine, and it was defective from the get go.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:40:54 PM
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Default Re: Grove AP206

Now to find what is jamming the pump or dead heading the hydraulics.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:26:51 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Grove AP206

The engine runs but not well, it may not have enough power to overcome the normal load. I'll see if I can make it run right and try the pump again.
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