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Garden Tractors and Mowers Vintage lawn and garden tractors, mowers, snow blowers, snowmobiles and other old machinery that is driven by small air cooled engines.

Garden Tractors and Mowers

16 Hp Briggs and Stratton Alternator (Stator) Polarity


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  #1  
Old 05-10-2019, 10:11:00 PM
Delta Dirt Delta Dirt is offline
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Default 16 Hp Briggs and Stratton Alternator (Stator) Polarity

16 hp Briggs and Stratton (model 326437) on Lincoln 225 WeldanPower

Long story-----short version:

Engine originally had points and condenser ignition. Lost ignition fire and converted to the magnetron electronic ignition coil-----did away with points/condenser.

Turned out my original flywheel magnet was polarized to the North. The magnetron coil would not fire off of the North oriented flywheel.

I have a junk engine (same model #)) that a neighbor had given me for parts. The junk engine was running a magnetron coil (no points).

I had learned from an internet video (by Zippo) that Briggs had switched polarity on the flywheel magnets back in the '80s. Based on the code numbers-----my original engine was manufactured in 1981; the parts engine was manufactured in 1985. I checked the magnets with my hand compass------and the points/condenser engine had a North polarity flywheel magnet. The parts (magnetron) engine had a South polarity flywheel magnet.

I switched flywheels and immediately got fire from the new magnetron coil (#398811)----and cranked engine. Engine runs great-------but alternator (stator) is not charging. I did not change stators.

Question: will the stator need to be changed to match the South polarity flywheel??? In checking the North polarity flywheel-------I find the inside flywheel magnets for the stator are polarized to the North also. (have not pulled flywheel to check polarity of inside magnets on the South polarity flywheel)

My original stator ring has two wires running from it. The stator ring from under the South polarized flywheel (magnetron) has one wire.

Additionally------the stator ring from under the South (magnetron) flywheel is only a 1/2 ring. All stator rings I have experienced are full circle rings????

My neighbor tells me he never remembers the flywheel having been removed-------thinking that the stator should be original??

Anybody familiar with what I am explaining here. Any advise or knowledge on the subject will be appreciated.

Don't run welder much-----not interested in spending alot------but would like to have alternator charging if feasible while I still have all of the sheet metal removed.

Sorry for the long winded post------Thanks.

Delta Dirt
Avon Ms 38723
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2019, 10:31:56 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: 16 hp Briggs and Stratton alternator (stator) polarity

The stator puts out ac that's switched to dc by the rectifier, shouldn't make any difference. Check to see if you're getting ac voltage from the stator, be sure they are the same diameter, needs to be a close fit.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:05:53 AM
gdstew gdstew is offline
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Default Re: 16 hp Briggs and Stratton alternator (stator) polarity

In order to run the magnetron ignition, you needed to swap flywheels also, you are correct. The stators are interchangeable depending upon what you want to do. the 1/2 circle is strictly AC used to run headlights only, produces 1/2 of the "wave". A full circle produces 2 --1/2 "waves" ( upper and lower), the black wire is AC and the red wire is DC. These generally are not regulated. You can also run 2 wires to a regulator and produce regulated DC. There are also different thicknesses of magnets to produce different amps. I had a chart that showed all the different combinations. You can use just about any combination as long as it is a set.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:39:14 AM
Delta Dirt Delta Dirt is offline
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Default Re: 16 hp Briggs and Stratton alternator (stator) polarity

Quote: "stators are interchangeable"

Do you mean the stator should work OK on either North or South polarity flyweels? Or I should swap the stator along with the flywheel?? (keep matched as were running)

The 1/2 circle stator looks as if it will bolt right up to bolt holes holding full circle in place.

In searching parts diagrams on line tonight------I found two 1/2 circle stators:

(1) AC only
(2) DC only

Figure the 1/2 circle stator from the parts engine must be DC only? The engine came off of an identical model Lincoln welder-----so no lights involved.

Probably will pull flywheel and swap stators (keep matched stator with matched flywheel-----as they originally were)--------and see what I get.

Seeing the 1/2 circle stators in the parts diagram makes me feel it was factory original (as my neighbor stated). I was not familiar with the 1/2 circle units.

Thanks----

Delta Dirt
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:06:36 AM
gdstew gdstew is offline
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Default Re: 16 hp Briggs and Stratton alternator (stator) polarity

The polarity of the flywheel was only the outside magnets, all the inner are the same. The 1/2 stator could be DC only also. If it goes to the battery for charging, it should have a diode in line so as to not discharge the battery when not running. B & S did a good job of color coding the wires and connectors. It can be determined what you have by the colors. You can run into trouble when somebody cuts and re-wires.
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:10:07 PM
Delta Dirt Delta Dirt is offline
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Default Re: 16 Hp Briggs and Stratton Alternator (Stator) Polarity

Ya'll have given me some good info to work off of.

Hope to get back on it in day or so----sounds like I need to check out original stator (on machine now) first.


What would have been the reason for B&S to change polarity on the outside magnet?? The internet video said they later switched magnet polarity back sometime later.

The polarity issue was something no one locally had ever heard of-----including a highly respected small engine shop.

Thanks---

DD
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:40:22 PM
gdstew gdstew is offline
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Default Re: 16 Hp Briggs and Stratton Alternator (Stator) Polarity

Your highly respected shop did not read the instruction sheet! When B & S first introduced the magnetron trigger unit to install on older coils and the new Magnetron coils, it stated that they would not work on cast iron engines. No "ifs ands or buts" about it, it will not work. Our shop was big into 8hp Snapper riders and we used/sold lots of 398811 coils in place of the original coils. These swapped over without flywheel changes. Why were the cast iron flywheels "backwards"?? Probably related to why older equipment had Positive Ground batteries? I haven't the faintest clue for that either!
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:02:13 PM
Delta Dirt Delta Dirt is offline
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Default Re: 16 Hp Briggs and Stratton Alternator (Stator) Polarity

Update------running and charging:

I disconnected the two wire harness on the original full circle stator and checked voltage.

Reading 13.8 volts off of red wire------0 off of 2nd wire (real faded------maybe yellow or white with a stripe???). Outgoing wire from harness junction immediately behind flywheel was broken---------other end going to welder boards was disconnected?? So----that was my lack of charging problem.

Never could find anything that looked to be a regulator or rectifier to my "untrained eyes". So--------I ran output wire (13.8 volts) to an on/off toggle switch)-----and then on to amp meter. (have to cut alternator switch on/off along with the kill switch)--------maybe I can remember yo do that!!!

Amp meter is showing a + charge of 3---5 amps. And------no drawdown (backfeed) with switch off.

Not factory-----but up and running. Sure like the hot fire from the magnetron ignition. (lucky that I had the magnetron flywheel on the parts engine)

According to Zippo's video on the change in polarity-----when the magnetron first came out, you could send the flywheel back to Briggs and Stratton for a change in polarization.

Thanks for the help. Maybe this info will help someone else down the road.

Live and learn. I am 76-------figure I might be a wise old man if I live another 50+ years!!!

*****

I hear you gdstew about the "highly respected shop"-------------uhhhh, that could be a misnomer!!!!!

Delta Dirt
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:35:20 PM
gdstew gdstew is offline
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Default Re: 16 Hp Briggs and Stratton Alternator (Stator) Polarity

"(have to cut alternator switch on/off along with the kill switch)"



I do not know why the switch? On the red wire coming off the stator, there should be a 1/4" "bump" in the wire just before the connector(white I think). That is a diode, it's job is to stop backfeed from the battery to the stator that is grounded. This is the area that gets cut off, thrown away, and rewired. If you do not have a diode, B & S makes replacing it real easy with a new pigtail/diode assy or you can buy just the diode.
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:17:45 PM
Delta Dirt Delta Dirt is offline
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Default Re: 16 Hp Briggs and Stratton Alternator (Stator) Polarity

Thanks------- will take a closer look tomorrow. I did notice that the connector end of the stator pigtail was sorta odd shaped. May be that I already have the diode???

I was looking for the diode beyond the connector. Just decided to move on forward and insert the toggle switch in the line.

At it's age-------not sure what is factory; or what might have been modified along the way. It's got age on it-------but not alot of hours of use.

Thanks again--

Delta Dirt
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:03:22 AM
gdstew gdstew is offline
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Default Re: 16 Hp Briggs and Stratton Alternator (Stator) Polarity

With the charging wire hot from the battery, when you connect that wire to the stator wire, if it sparks, then the diode is missing or bad. If it doesn't spark, you are OK
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:52:18 PM
Delta Dirt Delta Dirt is offline
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Default Re: 16 Hp Briggs and Stratton Alternator (Stator) Polarity

Diode was in place------and working; so did away with on/off switch.

Engine running fine------alternator charging.
But looks as if I am mis-wired or maybe got another broken wire-------not getting any power from the generator????

I saw somewhere that the alternator "excites" the generator--------will gradually get it all figured out.

Was welding fine when the engine quit due to lack of ignition fire-------can't be anything major.

Thanks----

Delta Dirt
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