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Winch advice


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  #1  
Old 08-26-2005, 08:41:39 AM
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Default Winch advice

I need some advice form some people here that have winches to load engines. I have some big engines on carts that im trying to easily load on the trailer. I got one of those hand crank winches but that gets old after about 2 minutes of cranking. Plus it doesnt have freewheel. That got me by for the couple times i needed it. I was looking at Cabelas and found a Warn 4700 DC. I was also told Superwinch was a good name but ive never seen them up close. Ive been trying to find someone that sells them around here but nobody has them. Any reccommendations?
Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of running the winch off the truck power. It seems to me that carrying around a battery all the time can get old, plus you need the winch and the battery is dead. Running some 00 wire down the framerail and to the battery wont be that hard. I probably might have to get a higher power alternator then too. Any suggestions?
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Frank Y
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  #2  
Old 08-26-2005, 08:49:48 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Exclamation Re: Winch advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Y
I was looking at Cabelas and found a Warn 4700 DC. I was also told Superwinch was a good name but ive never seen them up close. Ive been trying to find someone that sells them around here but nobody has them. Any reccommendations?
Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of running the winch off the truck power. It seems to me that carrying around a battery all the time can get old, plus you need the winch and the battery is dead. Running some 00 wire down the framerail and to the battery wont be that hard. I probably might have to get a higher power alternator then too. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Frank Y
Frank:

You're not looking at a big winch here so I think the current drain will be reasonably low.

I've seen a lot of folks who run their winches off of their vehicle battery. If you're in doubt about your battery's ability to outlast your winching (not wenching ) job, you could leave the vehicle's engine running. Most alternators will put out enough Amps to handle any of the smaller winches.

Also, I wouldn't bother with a bigger alternator. After all, the amount of time you'll be running the winch will be realtively short.

Anyhoo - that's my opinion - Take it with a grain of salt and take care - Elden
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2005, 09:09:46 AM
Chris Curtis
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Default Re: Winch advice

Warn and Superwinch are the two "big names" in winches and either one will be good quality, though I think the Warn is the better of the two (also more money). If your engines are on wheels then you may not need as big of a winch since you are only dealing with rolling load which is considerably lighter then trying to pull the actual dead weight of the engine. Make sure you get one that has reverse option so you can use it for a controlled decent down your ramps. Many winches only have "in" and "freewheel" so you would not be able to hold the load back when unloading. If your trailer has electric brakes then you should already have a continuous 12 volt source in the trailer wiring harness used to charge the emergency break away battery. I would mount a deep cycle automotive battery on the trailer and tie it into the wiring harness so that the battery charges off the truck when the trailer is hooked up. Since the winch is only run intermittently your stock alternator should work fine.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:18:49 AM
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Default Re: Winch advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Y
I need some advice form some people here that have winches to load engines.
For the brief period every year that I go to my local shows, I have a Super Winch that I bolt to the front of my trailer. I got a length of heavy guage wire (the same as was supplied with the winch), to extend just enough to clamp to my truck battery. When using the winch I leave the truck running. If I used the winch more often (maybe when I retire), I'd probably run a semi-permanent line along the rail to the rear of the truck to plug into. I've been there with come-a-longs & hand cranks, & boy does that powered winch make things easy! I'm sure you already know all this, but a few safety tips; use a remote switch so you are away from the cable when it's taut, use pulleys to reduce the strain when pulling, & make sure that you are anchored securely to whatever you are winching. Hope this helps.
John
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Old 08-26-2005, 10:28:41 AM
Sonny Sonny is offline
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Default Re: Winch advice

Frank Harbor Freight In Allentown Has A Nice Selection Of Winches In Stock I M Going Over 2 Get One Myself I Want One With Power In And Out Thanks Sonny
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Old 08-26-2005, 10:46:43 AM
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Default Re: Winch advice

I have a small SUPERWINCH T1500 mounted on my trailer, inside a wooden box. I cut a hole in the box, for the cable. When not in use, the hole is covered, to keep the mice out. I also have a 12 volt car battery in the box, along with some other needed items, that is strictly for the winch. All I have to do is open the box, pull out the control & I'm in business! I charge the battery once a year, whether it needs it or not...the last battery, which was a used one, lasted me over 5 years. I also bring the battery inside during the cold WI winter months. My only complaint is, that the cable for the control, isn't long enough, to suit me. I have 2 large engines, both on carts, that are quite heavy...a 4hp STOVER T & a 5hp FIELD-BRUNDAGE Type W. The winch is kinda slow pulling them up the ramp, but it still does a FINE job & is MUCH better than a hand-crank type...been there-done that! I purchased the SUPERWINCH at the local FARM & FLEET store. Hope this helps!!! GOOD LUCK!!!
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:51:14 PM
RHudson RHudson is offline
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Default Re: Winch advice

well.. here's the deal with winches...what ever you purchase will be too small sooner or later...either brand mentioned is good. we have to have breakaway brakes so i mounted a full sized deep cycle battery in the "a" frame of my trailer. one of the handest things i have is a remote control for my winch. the radio control kit was around $150. lets me use a keychain fob remote. now i can stay with the load and either guide it in the case of small loads or keep an eye on progress with the very heavy oilfield engines. its one of those things that you wouldn't consider purchasing until you use it. now i would not be without it. i went years using a 2400 superwinch. sometimes i had to double and even triple block to load larger tractors, but i did it...until my little superwinch finally gave up while pulling a tobacco scale out of the floor of a wharehouse. spend until it hurts, then spend a little more.
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Old 08-26-2005, 03:13:42 PM
Chris Curtis
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Default Re: Winch advice

[QUOTE=Elden DuRand]Frank:

...... winching (not wenching )

Let me apologize in advance, but I felt I should do this just for clarity. The first picture is a "winch" and the second one is a "wench".
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  #9  
Old 08-26-2005, 03:21:10 PM
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Default Re: Winch advice

Pick up an issue of Peterson's 4-Wheel & Off-Road or Four Wheeler; they have all kinds of advertisements for winches in there. A good source to buy winches from is 4Wheel Parts Wholesalers. They have a huge selection at competitive prices. Also check out Ramsey and MileMarker brand winches. A buddy of mine runs an 8,000lb. MileMarker on his truck and it's served him well. If you compare it with some of the others, I think you'll find it to be the most bang for your buck, if you're wanting a quality winch.

If you are a decent fabricator, buy a winch that fits into your receiver hitch. Then you can make something on your trailer to hold it. Then you can easily remove it from your trailer when not in use, as well as use it from your truck if you ever wanted to.

The best battery to use for your application, hands-down, has got to be an Optima. They're a little pricey ($100-150, depending on model), but they have dry cells, so you can mount them sideways or even upside down if you want, and they have LOTS of juice. I run a red-top Optima in one of my trucks and I think it has like 960 cold cranking amps and like a thousand-something regular cranking amps. As soon as the battery craps out in my daily driver, I'll buy one for it, too.
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  #10  
Old 08-26-2005, 04:25:54 PM
John G John G is offline
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Default Re: Winch advice

I just bought a new winch from (feeling shame) Harbor Freight. It has a 2000lb. capacity, and cost me less than $40!

It freewheels out, and unfortunately does not have a reverse, so it doesn’t help me unload. I’m thinking about trying to reverse the terminals to see if that gives me a little help.

I wired the 12 volt up to our 7 pin RV connector on the back of the truck. I couldn’t see buying another battery.

It’s hard to believe how well this $40 winch works. I am only loading an Associated
1 1/2 HP, and a Red E garden tractor.

John
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  #11  
Old 08-26-2005, 08:26:52 PM
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Default Re: Winch advice

7yrs ago I went and bought a Warn Z3500, best $$$ I ever spent. Use it for loading and unloading engines from my truck as I don't have a trailer. Cables were just long enough to reach my battery. My 9yr old Motorcraft battery has handled the job just fine even when loading up several engines. Spent the extra $$$ for a snatchblock and remote. You get what you pay for and I've certainly got my money's worth with Warn.

Cheers
NICK
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2005, 10:37:55 PM
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Default Re: Winch advice

Some GREAT advice guys, Thanks so much. The warn 4700 has the power in out and freewheel, i know I NEED that. So far all the engines are on carts but a skidded engine always might be in the future. and i figure that the 4700 is probaly enough to pull that barn fresh engine from its resting place if needed.

Jason, We MUST be thinking alike. I have the plans all drawn up to build that reciever hitch for on the trailer to mount the winch. I just have a single axle trailer right now so theres no breakaway. Im just going to get some welding wire and run it down the frame rail since you guys think that the draw wont be that bad. Plus like was mentioned I wont be using it but for 4 or 5 shows at most. I like the idea of being able to use it without the trailer too if I should need to.

I was thinking about making an extension cord for the handheld remote but the remote control seems to be popular. I might have to look into that too.

I already looked at Ramseys and theyre a little out of my price range. Theyre probably good for getting vehicles unstuck but I wont be doing that......probably not anyway.

Thanks so much for the great advice, and thanks HARRY for the GREAT site and helping get all these Wonderful people together! My hat goes off to all of you!!
Frank Y
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2005, 10:46:14 PM
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Default Re: Winch advice

That $37.00 winch:: From Harbor Freight has lasted 2yrs, so far... If it burns up ....I'm sure Il'l pickup another....Byron
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Old 08-26-2005, 10:57:50 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Winch advice

I have used a motorized winch foe well on 15 years now. I would not do without it! Harbor Freight is a good source - JC Whitney, and the Northern Freight are also good. A good trailer shop will have them too. A Quick word on power.- I see someone posted that they are using their 7 pin plug for powr. YOU must be very careful not to overload the winch! Most winches draw at least 25 to 40 amps, during a heavy pull. My winch came with 2 30 AMP breakers in parallel (60 amps protection. There are several times I have tripped the breakers. A 7 pin is not designed to carry such a load. Most 4 pin and 7 pin plugs use ABS plastic to carry the pins. This WILL melt if heated I don't need to tell you what happens if 60 AMP source meets wiring designed for 15 AMPS In my truck, I installed an auxillary power outlet designed for just such use. It consists of 2 6 guage wires connected to the truck battery with 2 replaceable fusable link fuses. These wires are run along the factory harness, and terminate in a receptical mounted on the rear bumper To use my winch, all I have to do is plug in the plug into the receptical. I run the truck engine while winching, to avoid undervoltage to the winch (it works hard enough as it is) There are 2 reasons for the fusable links. First, God forbid that the winch locks up under load (an unforseen snag etc) They will blow just like a fuse, and cut power (they are easily replaceable), and will not reset unexpectedly like the automatic breakers that came with the winch. Second, If the truck is in a rear end collision, if the wiring is cut or shorted, the links will blow, and cut the risk of fire due to uncontrolled power source meeting a ground. The receptical can also be used to jump start another car. The trick is to connect the positive to the battery in the car to be started, and connect the ground to the engine block. Let charge for at least 15 minutes, and then try to start the car. As soon as the car starts, disconnect GROUND first, then the positive. This will prevent battery explosion from igniting hydrogen gas in the battery when disconnecting.
Andrew
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Old 08-27-2005, 07:05:17 AM
Phillip Hutchinson Phillip Hutchinson is offline
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Default Re: Winch advice

I would be inclined to buy the warn winch ,good idea to put it in a box but I would put the battery in separate enclosure,as far as the battery goes a deep cycle battery is not really designed to have heavy current loads drawn off it.Also I believe that they also need to have a full 14 volt supply to fully recharge,you can put a charger on it occationally.I recently set up second battery system in my employers Mercedes Sprinter van,firstly he put a 12" case D/C battery in it (not successful)I replaced it with 2 x DIN 88 calcium plated batteries now its a beaty (so the boss tells me)The second battery is charged through a 70 amp relay triggered from the IGN,You will need to fit a fusible link in the charging line at the + post of the second batteryto protect the vehicle from a short cicuit and a 40 amp circuit breaker at the engine battery + to limit the current flow in case of a flat engine battery.
The main claim to fame of a calcium battery will retain 90% (correct me if i'm wrong) of its capacity after sitting for 12 months,I have fitted heaps of them to "plonk trucks" (a plonk truck is an old rattler used during wine grape harvest for 2 months and parked for the remainder of the year).I think DEKA/DELCO would be able to supply it for you in the States.You may think its a bit over the top with the precautions I have listed but I have seen and repaired a few fried wiring lumes in vehicles because the owner did not take said precautions.
Happy cranking or should I say WINCHING
P.S.if you had the wench you could get her to wind your old winch,clean the engine,and cook ya lunch (ONLY JOKING LADIES) regards Phillip
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:40:26 AM
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Talking Re: Winch advice

[QUOTE=Chris Curtis]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elden DuRand
Frank:

...... winching (not wenching )

Let me apologize in advance, but I felt I should do this just for clarity. The first picture is a "winch" and the second one is a "wench".
As pirates say: "Arrrrrrrrh!"
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:48:56 AM
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Red face Re: Winch advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Hutchinson
P.S.if you had the wench you could get her to wind your old winch,clean the engine,and cook ya lunch (ONLY JOKING LADIES) regards Phillip
You musta already tried that............

Hubby: "Dear, when you finish getting the engine nice and clean, would you load it up? Then I might be hungry.............WHAPPPP!"

Hubby: "Yes Dear, I understand perfectly! Thank you, Dovey, for setting me straight on that.".

Take care - Elden
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Old 08-27-2005, 11:39:55 PM
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Default Re: Winch advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Y
I need some advice form some people here that have winches to load engines. I have some big engines on carts that im trying to easily load on the trailer.
Hi Frank, I have been reading all the replies, and I'm sure they are all good. I would suggest that if you are going to be loading heavy engines and often, I would pay the difference and get one that has power in and out with freewheeling and enough power (3500lbs or better) and speed that you don't get nervous waiting on it.

I have been loading some engines today for a 6 day show at the Twin Falls Fair which starts this week. I made some pictures of my loading so you can see how I load mine. The first one is a single cable pull. and the other two are using a snatch block. Most engines can be loaded without the double cable, but this engine weighs about 1900 and better lbs.

I also spliced on about 15 ft. of control cable , so I can operate the winch and guide what I'm loading. This setup works fine for me Good Luck. John
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Old 08-28-2005, 12:05:41 AM
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Default Re: Winch advice

I forgot to mention that this is a 4500 lb pull winch and is powered with a deep cycle bat. , which is in a box mounted on front of the trailor. I have been using it for about 3 years and have never had a problem with it. If I'm going to use it for a long period of time, I will charge it over night. Also the winch is mounted on a rail so it can be moved side to side on the trailor. John
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Old 08-28-2005, 03:39:39 PM
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Default Re: Winch advice

I have used a Superwinch 3 for about 15 years. It does not get used a lot but, when used I have used it hard.
I mounted it on a 2" square tube which I can slip into a receiver which I welded onto the front of the trailer. This allows me to easily remove it so those who would want it more than me can't get it.
I also made up cables to run from the trailer all the way to the battery on the truck with booster cable type clamps on the ends. My thoughts were that it could be used with any vehicle.
The first two trucks I used it on I used the vehicle frame for ground and ran a power wire direct from the truck battery to the back of the truck where I terminated to a quick connect used for electric forklifts. This worked pretty good. I always was a little concerned having that big live wire running front to back so when I got my latest truck I decided to go with with "booster cable" idea.
As I said I have worked it hard. I have pulled a Cockshutt 50 with it.
Also pulled a M Rumely sunk in the dirt.
That was hard on it and had to replace the power wire on the winch after that pull.
I also pull a 2000 lb. gas engine (level dead pull) on skids.
I always use a snatch block with the heavy pulls.
I guess what I am trying to say is as other guys have said it depends on the type of pulling and how often that determines the type of winch.

In closing this ramble always keep an eye on the cable and be aware because if it fails you and anybody around you could be dead in an instant.

Hope this helps

Ross
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