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Installing handholes


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  #1  
Old 12-03-2005, 12:11:50 PM
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Default Installing handholes

Hi gang;
I recently noticed when installing the handhole and placing the frog? on that only two of the legs touch the boiler shell. On this vertical they are the top and bottom ones. Is this normal? I also saw this on a vertical down at Barnes' which I thought was abnormal.

Thanks in anticipation!!

RickinMt.
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Old 12-03-2005, 12:48:13 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

for on a curved surface i would think you need a two leg frog, i'm sure thats whats in the calliope's vertical boiler
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Old 12-03-2005, 01:27:52 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Rick,
Reeves placed curved covers and frogs atop their boiler barrels, so they were manufactured. Your boiler may have had curved frogs from the factory? I know to which frogs you refer, as I remember replacing hand hole gaskets in that upright boiler at Barnes' one of the last times I was there. I don't think it matters if it doesn't touch, as like Chad said, a double frog would only touch in one direction with the two contacts. I have a double frog here I'd give you, although it may be a little large for what you need.
Gary
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Old 12-03-2005, 01:40:43 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Thanks guys!! 'preciate it. These (5) are four legged and identical. I've got them all Gary.

Jus curious as to why they made them that way. (I've sure asked that question a lot in the past few years) <vbg>.

Well I've got the gaskets all cut up and won a Lunk. water glass yesterday. Now I just need to get off my butt and get that tap from Mike.

Next comes the Hydro.

What is the reason that a hydro is required? bottom line, if it leaks, it gets fixed. Or do they (inspector) document the leaks?

Take care guys..she's a "Three Dog Night" out there :-)
Rick
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Old 12-03-2005, 01:57:35 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Strobel
Thanks guys!! 'preciate it. These (5) are four legged and identical. I've got them all Gary.

Jus curious as to why they made them that way. (I've sure asked that question a lot in the past few years) <vbg>.

Well I've got the gaskets all cut up and won a Lunk. water glass yesterday. Now I just need to get off my butt and get that tap from Mike.

Next comes the Hydro.

What is the reason that a hydro is required? bottom line, if it leaks, it gets fixed. Or do they (inspector) document the leaks?

Take care guys..she's a "Three Dog Night" out there :-)
Rick
Rick,
If you pump up a completely filled boiler with a boiler pump, each pump on the handle installs about an ounce of two of water. If a staybolt or a sheet gives way, there is a "whump" and water sprayed all over. Steam on the other hand is an expansive gas. A drop of water, when turning to steam, gains almost 1700 times its original capacity and scatters iron and people all over the place. Therefore the hydro applies the same amount of pressure but little of the force upon rupture. Air is better than steam, but it just doesn't scatter quite as far, but the operator is just as dead.

It was so cold here last night we had out three dogs and borrowed the neighbors, to stay warm in bed.
Gary

Last edited by 20 Reeves Highwheeler; 12-03-2005 at 02:09:19 PM.
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Old 12-04-2005, 01:58:41 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Thanks Gary, You explained it well!! Believe I just bought a gov. for the Wachs, got a water gauge comin', one injector in the bank, one to go.

Now just need a fusible, pop-off, and of course a whistle.


LIVE IS GOOD..toot, toot

Happy Holidays all!!!!!!!!!

RickinMt.
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Old 12-04-2005, 09:13:10 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Rick,
Was Corky Staudinger (in Billings) not able to furnish you with a fusible plug? I am pretty sure he stocks ASME 3/4" plugs, unless your boiler uses something different.

I'd get a new Kunkle pop valve set for your MAWP and not try to buy something off of that e-site. Now the whistle; that's something else. That e-site will have them selling all the time. They aren't inexpensive, but I don't think you'd lose your investment, should you ever decide to place it back on that site. Lunkenheimers seem to be the spendy ones. Especially the Mockingbirds.

I am sending a photo of the whistle Mike is wanting me to give him to put on Randy and his Reeves along with the original triple chime Buckeye. My dad removed the whistle from the derelict steamboat Tacony at U-L Bend on the Missouri River in the early 1920s. I hope the photo shows up here, as I am no computer whiz and I hoped to extract it from my photo gallery.
Gary

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Old 12-04-2005, 09:58:00 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

If their 4 leg frogs i don't see why the won't sit flat on the boiler even if its curved, as long as the legs are all the same length, is the bolt in the hand door not perpendicular to the tangent of the convex face of the hand door,, i don't know what i just said do you?
When cleaning out at the end of the season i found a flat handoor in the curved part of the reeves, the gasket was absolutely crushed at the ends its a wonder it didn't leak.
Another thing is what is common practice around the country, we must replace all handoor gaskets EVERY season and some of the engines run 3 days or less and the gaskets are near new, and thoughts on this? It is better safe then sorry, i have seen one very nearly blow compleatly out but, we just pulled the fire and turned on the injector untill we could replace it.
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Old 12-05-2005, 10:44:13 AM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

G'day Chad;
The legs on the horizontal plane are a little longer, but still don't touch. I'd swag 1/8" of clearance on both when centered. Course we haven't tightened the nut yet, but still didn't seem right.
Now with 100#'s of steam in this puppy and if they do start to touch..well that in itself will be VERY INTERESTING.

Gary, do you have Corky's phone number?


Merry Christmas gang

Rick
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Old 12-05-2005, 12:13:25 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Strobel
G'day Chad;
The legs on the horizontal plane are a little longer, but still don't touch. I'd swag 1/8" of clearance on both when centered. Course we haven't tightened the nut yet, but still didn't seem right.
Now with 100#'s of steam in this puppy and if they do start to touch..well that in itself will be VERY INTERESTING.

Gary, do you have Corky's phone number?


Merry Christmas gang

Rick
Hi again Rick,
I have the number for Corky and it is an 800 to boot!
1-800-382-3917.
Merry Christmas to you and all others too!
Gary
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Old 12-05-2005, 12:31:50 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Gary, what % of pop-off pressure do you guys take your boilers to when doing a hydro test?
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Old 12-05-2005, 03:12:44 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas_Farmer
Gary, what % of pop-off pressure do you guys take your boilers to when doing a hydro test?
KF,
It used to be 150%, then went to 125%. I am not sure now. There was a time in the "last regeime" did a 100% or "fire until popping". I am sorry, but I think they have gone back to 125% warm? Only a guess.
Gary
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Old 12-05-2005, 04:01:41 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Cool, thanks~

Kansas' shows have settled on 125% cold. We do 150% on ours simply cause that's the way we've always done it, even though it's more than necessary at this point.
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Old 12-05-2005, 08:19:14 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

we do hydro of 200% so for our 100psi operating pressure ( for ALL boilers 25yrs or older regardless of condition) we test to 200lbs of air temp water. as far as i know all new boilers used to be tested to 150% so a 150psi was tested to 225lbs only 25lbs more then what we do to a 90yr old boiler, think there trying to weed out the week ones?? I'd like to run 125lbs that extra 25lbs makes a world of a difference
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Old 12-06-2005, 01:01:51 AM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20 Reeves Highwheeler
Rick,
Was Corky Staudinger (in Billings) not able to furnish you with a fusible plug? I am pretty sure he stocks ASME 3/4" plugs, unless your boiler uses something different.

I'd get a new Kunkle pop valve set for your MAWP and not try to buy something off of that e-site. Now the whistle; that's something else. That e-site will have them selling all the time. They aren't inexpensive, but I don't think you'd lose your investment, should you ever decide to place it back on that site. Lunkenheimers seem to be the spendy ones. Especially the Mockingbirds.

I am sending a photo of the whistle Mike is wanting me to give him to put on Randy and his Reeves along with the original triple chime Buckeye. My dad removed the whistle from the derelict steamboat Tacony at U-L Bend on the Missouri River in the early 1920s. I hope the photo shows up here, as I am no computer whiz and I hoped to extract it from my photo gallery.
Gary

Gary,
Is that a Lunk. whistle? What is tha diam. and length of the bell? What is the pipe size for feed line?
Chuck
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Old 12-06-2005, 09:43:49 AM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Thanks Gary...yes Montana does 125% of U.T. so will pump mine up to 125 psi....warm.

2 above here

Rick
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Old 12-06-2005, 11:41:19 AM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Sindelar
Gary,
Is that a Lunk. whistle? What is tha diam. and length of the bell? What is the pipe size for feed line?
Chuck
Chuck,
I remember you asking this question before by e-mail. I went and got it out of its hiding spot and measured things. It is a one inch pipe feed; a three & one half inch bell, sixteen inches in length, without the acorn. I scoured it and find no manufacturer's markings anywhere. It has "CC" on the side of the valve. It has some kind of andoized(?) finish, green in color, on the straight part of the bell and I have seen photos of other steamboat whistles with that, likely, chemical process. It has every "earmark" of being a Lunk, in styling.
Gary
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Old 12-06-2005, 03:49:02 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Gary,
Another of my interests is whistles. There is no doubt that it is a Lunkenheimer. Lunk. introduced this line of extra long bells in their 1912 catalog (per Ed Fagen in his "Whistle Book")
Lunk's. standard length bell is twice its diameter. Their "long bell" is three times its diameter--And this one you have with the extra long bell is 4 times its diameter. Thus according to my 1920 Lunk. catalog, the bell length for a 3 1/2 inch diam bell in an extra long bell should be 4 X 3 1/2" = 14 inches. And you said yours is 16"?? Being yours has a 1" feed line which my catalog says is only used on their 3 1/2 inch--(their 3 inch bell has a 3/4 inch feed line inlet, and their 4 inch has a 1 1/4 inch inlet). Their bell measurement is always only the bell (without the acorn). It is a mystery as to why your bell is 16 inches, and not 14??? Unless for some other year(s), they made them differently? Lunk. usually had their name on the valve, and no place on the bell--so this style whistle that was ordered without a valve ends up with no marking on it. The CC on the valve tells us that the valve was made by Crane . Crane began useing this marking in the 1890s, and used it like that until approx. 1904. After that they used their name Crane on the valve. If you decide not to allow your son Mike to use it on his Reeves, I'd be happy to clean it up and use it on my engine--and I'd even agree to pay the shipping Just kidding, as I well remember the history that you told me about. Thanks Gary for sharing this with us.
Chuck
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Old 12-06-2005, 06:37:13 PM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Sindelar
Gary,
Another of my interests is whistles. There is no doubt that it is a Lunkenheimer. Lunk. introduced this line of extra long bells in their 1912 catalog (per Ed Fagen in his "Whistle Book")
Lunk's. standard length bell is twice its diameter. Their "long bell" is three times its diameter--And this one you have with the extra long bell is 4 times its diameter. Thus according to my 1920 Lunk. catalog, the bell length for a 3 1/2 inch diam bell in an extra long bell should be 4 X 3 1/2" = 14 inches. And you said yours is 16"?? Being yours has a 1" feed line which my catalog says is only used on their 3 1/2 inch--(their 3 inch bell has a 3/4 inch feed line inlet, and their 4 inch has a 1 1/4 inch inlet). Their bell measurement is always only the bell (without the acorn). It is a mystery as to why your bell is 16 inches, and not 14??? Unless for some other year(s), they made them differently? Lunk. usually had their name on the valve, and no place on the bell--so this style whistle that was ordered without a valve ends up with no marking on it. The CC on the valve tells us that the valve was made by Crane . Crane began useing this marking in the 1890s, and used it like that until approx. 1904. After that they used their name Crane on the valve. If you decide not to allow your son Mike to use it on his Reeves, I'd be happy to clean it up and use it on my engine--and I'd even agree to pay the shipping Just kidding, as I well remember the history that you told me about. Thanks Gary for sharing this with us.
Chuck
Chuck,
This whistle is one inch pipe and 3.5" bell, 16 inches long. I saw a steamship whistle display from an old salt years ago. He had one that looked awfully close to this one. I have the picture somewhere, which was in a 1950s PM. It is the green that has me fascinated. I have always wondered if it wasn't kind of like "browning" an old muzzle loader, in effect keeping it from rusting. Maybe this green keeps the salt water from corroding it?
Gary
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Old 12-07-2005, 12:47:27 AM
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Default Re: Installing handholes

I got what was left of a Lunk. three bell set off a factory in Milwaukee not long ago--The iron manifold was there, and a complete 5" X 10" (the bells were missing for the 8" X 24", and the 6" X 12". The bell and acorn nut on the 5" has tarnished/oxidized to a pale green. Many copper gutters, down spouts and roofs of that vintage in Milwaukee have taken on a similer color. However I got another 6" Lunk. off another Milwaukee factory where they made coke from coal--the bronze bell and nut are about as black as a boiler. I think the black layer that covered everything at the coke plant prevented it from oxidizing to the tell-tale green. I have another Lunk., (8" X 24") off a factory in Racine, WI that has a very handsome bronze "patina"--I think varrying different conditions (polution) that existed at each site determined the surface condition of the bronze.
Chuck
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