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18 h.p. Case boiler inspection


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  #1  
Old 04-25-2006, 09:24:59 AM
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Default 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

I have a friend who is thinking about purchasing a 18 h.p. Case portable. It has been stored inside for over 30 years, but hasn’t been steamed in that time. He wants to do a low pressure hydro (25 psi or so) on the boiler to see if there are any existing problems that can be identified with a hydro.

The engine is located about 200 miles from me, and I want to take along the correct materials to perform the hydro.

So, the questions are:

(1) What size are the handhole gaskets?

(2) What shape (obround or elliptical) ?

(3) What is the size of any plugs, such as the one in the front flue sheet?

It is interesting to note that a previous owner installed 1 1/2” NPT black pipe when he couldn’t find a source for the required 1 3/4” boiler tubes.

Thanks,

David
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:18:37 AM
Robert M Robert M is offline
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

David
From what your telling and asking, do yourself a favor and stay home. Unless of course you have deep pockets.
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:21:44 AM
John Deck John Deck is offline
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

David, your last sentence,” It is interesting to note that a previous owner installed 1 1/2” NPT black pipe when he couldn’t find a source for the required 1 3/4” boiler tubes” tells the whole story. There is no need to do any kind of hydro on a boiler that has NPT black pipe for flues. The best thing you can do is a very good visual inspection and if you have access to an ultrasound tester take a lot of readings. I have included a link that has a good inspection sheet for UT. http://flinflon.brandonu.ca/steam/Me...Guidelines.pdf The problem with a hydro is it won’t tell you anything about the critical issues of steel thickness that will determine if you can even use the boiler. The flues will all have to be removed and replaced before you can even think about operating. I don’t want to sound like a bad guy but taking the time to do a complete inspection of the boiler is the right thing to do and will determine if you even want to purchase it.
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:28:23 AM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

I did go down this road one time and for gaskets, I used 1/4 inch sheet of red rubber. Cut as required.

I would not rush the visual inspection for the hydro. maybe put your friend to work cutting gaskets while you look and look. Dont forget lights.

Do you know about the tubes installed with brass ferrules? I dont, but perhaps someone here does. This might allow or require reaming the flue sheet for a brass ring that get between the flue and the sheet. i forget the reason for these, perhaps just for the case here where the tube holes are buggered up.

I got some positive feedback on some $500 dollar ultra sound units discussed here and sold on ebay. I did not buy one yet, and I lost the link. I think this is the one: (item 7609406018)

I really should bite the bullet and get one of these too.
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:46:09 AM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

Perhaps a little more information is needed here.

I have access to the Topog-E gasket line, and it would be easier to take the correct gaskets as opposed to cutting gaskets out of red rubber. Of course, the latter is always an option.

There are no plans to fire the engine before a complete inspection of the boiler, both externally and internally. The 1 1/2” pipe will be removed for the internal inspection, and an ultrasound done at that time. I have an acquaintance who was a boilermaker for the Southern Railway steam excursion program who will do the ultrasound.

My friend has a sentimental connection to the engine, and the wherewithal to repair the boiler or replace it if need be.

The little engine was used for years with its 1 1/2” pipe tubes, and had a state certificate for 85 psi.

Thanks for the replies. This is a great forum for intelligent discussion on steam by people who have been there, done it, and are still doing it.

David
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:23:45 PM
Casemaker Casemaker is offline
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

I do not condone using black pipe as flues either and I would never do that ....but I have removed flues before where they have used it for many years (yes both ends were beaded)...apparently without mishap....so I think that some of those comments regarding that use is a kind of knee - jerk reaction.....
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:39:02 PM
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Thumbs up Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

I bought the digiworks ut tester and am very happy with it. The company in I bought it from in Canada was helpful. The unit does everything I need and will be using it again for my other roller bolier JEFFK
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:40:08 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

David
Click on the attachment below, as its a scanning out of my CASE STEAM ENGINE MANUAL showing the handhole plate with measurements.
GOOD LUCK!

If you're unable to read the attachment, let me know, and I'll post the dimensions?

Gary K
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:56:17 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

David
Here's a scanning of the Case handhole plate . . . hopefully it'll show up more?

Gary K
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Old 04-25-2006, 01:03:58 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

Jeff,

is that the right link I have down there. The model is HCH-2000E, two probes
and price in 469 plus shipping, insurance etc... I lost the origional info. I think the time has come. I'll just use the plastic.......
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Old 04-25-2006, 01:22:55 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary K
David
Click on the attachment below, as its a scanning out of my CASE STEAM ENGINE MANUAL showing the handhole plate with measurements.
GOOD LUCK!

If you're unable to read the attachment, let me know, and I'll post the dimensions?

Gary K

Thanks, Gary. Perfectly readable!

David
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:23:05 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
......................Do you know about the tubes installed with brass ferrules?

I have never heard of using brass for ferrules? My Huber has copper ferrules, but brass suffers from dezincification and I have never seen any internal boiler parts such as ferrules out of brass but I could be wrong.

I have a small locomotive boiler that is all copper and I am going through and changing out some of the older exterior valves because of this problem. I don't understand why it happens to models but not real engine items like injectors and valves, etc.? Maybe someone can fill me in on this?

Thank you,

Jeff
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:07:12 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

Jeff you must be right with copper ferrule, I never saw these only read about them somewhere and now i forget why they were used. But if the tube sheet is damaged with the blackiron pipe I thought this could be a solution.
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:38:46 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Smith
I have never heard of using brass for ferrules? My Huber has copper ferrules, but brass suffers from dezincification and I have never seen any internal boiler parts such as ferrules out of brass but I could be wrong.

I have a small locomotive boiler that is all copper and I am going through and changing out some of the older exterior valves because of this problem. I don't understand why it happens to models but not real engine items like injectors and valves, etc.? Maybe someone can fill me in on this?

Thank you,

Jeff
I am also familiar with the copper ferrules (on a Huber as well) and have heard of them used on other makes. Copper should work better than brass because it is softer and will conform the the tube O.D. and hole better than brass. Jeff, I bet that the same thing happens to "real" engines as well. It sounds like a form of electrolytic corrosion. I think that the effects are less evident on full-size engines because there is a lot more area of other surfaces for the electrolysis to attack than on a model. Has anyone ever tried to fit one of these small boilers with a sacraficial anode. You could make up a plug filled with zinc and screw it into the boiler. They put a Zinc rod in water heaters for this reason.
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Old 04-25-2006, 06:23:32 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

David, In your first write, you are asking about doing a hydro test, I figure your doing this to determine boiler value/what would/should one give. your second write tells us your friend has sentimental feelings and wherewithal to either repair or replace the boiler. Hey, are you guys loading this thing or what? get your feet wet!!!
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Old 04-25-2006, 07:43:02 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

what year is this engine? does it have a long smoke box? take a flashlight and look in the back hand hole donw on the crown, in the front hand hole and up the waterlegs. if you dont have the UT along the 1st time use a hammer and punch in the fire box corners and along the bottoms, that would tell you quick if its shot around there you can usualy tell by a visual if its shot or has potential. check and see if there been any old welding done on it, look for external pitting, and make sure the crown sheet is not pillowed down, and see if the fusible plug is still in it. i guess there's lots of things to look for. hope it turns out good
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:37:39 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

This may sound very odd to some of you folks, but I like to inspect boilers in the dark with a flashlight. I can see a lot better inside when I look at them in the dark. I have taken a heavy tarp with me before and then covered myself and the area of the boiler I am looking at with the tarp to see better inside. Here is a simple test, take a flashlight in the dark and hold it up next to the wall and you will see all kinds of wrinkles in your wall that you might not see during the day time, and that is the same with the inside of the boiler.

I agree with Colin on the hammer, I have even taken ice picks and tried to stick them through in those corners although the former owners might not have been to happy! A nice long 3/8" rod with the tip bent 90 degrees and ground to a point will help you scratch the junk away around the stay bolts on the top of the crown sheet to look at the threads in that area. A shop vac might help to clean some of the junk out inside to see better also. Those are just a few things for now.

Jeff Smith
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:41:17 PM
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyG
I am also familiar with the copper ferrules (on a Huber as well) and have heard of them used on other makes. Copper should work better than brass because it is softer and will conform the the tube O.D. and hole better than brass. Jeff, I bet that the same thing happens to "real" engines as well. It sounds like a form of electrolytic corrosion. I think that the effects are less evident on full-size engines because there is a lot more area of other surfaces for the electrolysis to attack than on a model. Has anyone ever tried to fit one of these small boilers with a sacraficial anode. You could make up a plug filled with zinc and screw it into the boiler. They put a Zinc rod in water heaters for this reason.
Huber used the copper ferrules so that a person can get the tubes back out of the tube sheet because there is not hand hole to pull the tubes out of like on the front of a locomotive style boiler on the front tube sheet. They made the hole larger so that a tube with scale could come out of the hole, although they did not on our engine and we had to drive them out so far and then burn a hole in them and pull them out with a wench.

A friend of the family used his team of horses to get his out! I bet that would have been very neat to watch.

Jeff
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:03:32 PM
Dwight S Dwight S is offline
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

Are there instructions on how to ultrasound a boiler? John Deck said "I have included a link that has a good inspection sheet for UT. http://flinflon.brandonu.ca/steam/Me...Guidelines.pdf ". but I could not get this link to work.
Does it explain how many readings to take and where to make readings? Do state inspectors require that trained people to take readings? Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:39:54 PM
John Deck John Deck is offline
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Default Re: 18 h.p. Case boiler inspection

The correct links to the Manitoba inspection link are as follows:

http://flinflon.brandonu.ca/steam/Me...Guidelines.pdf

http://flinflon.brandonu.ca/steam/Me...uidelines1.PDF

This is about the best one I have found for doing the UT testing map.
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