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Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs Discussion about magnetos, buzz coils, spark plugs, ignitors and low tension coils.

Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs

1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?


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  #1  
Old 07-14-2007, 01:01:35 PM
sawdusttv sawdusttv is offline
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Default 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

I need an ignitor and magnito for this engine but don't know which ones I need.
Can anyone tell me?
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:34:24 PM
ksirovy ksirovy is offline
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

I've got the same problem, mine is in the 1923 era, from the research I've done I think they came with a battery box with the magneto built in but I'm not sure. I've seen other ones with the magneto driven off the gear by the flywheel on the rigtht side. I have no idea what's right or wrong but I need to find out. Right now mine just has a wire from a clip above the (control rod that opens the valve) to the spark plug. I know that can't be all of it.
Sure would like to know what it needs to make it run.
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:22:46 AM
sawdusttv sawdusttv is offline
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksirovy View Post
I've got the same problem, mine is in the 1923 era, from the research I've done I think they came with a battery box with the magneto built in but I'm not sure. I've seen other ones with the magneto driven off the gear by the flywheel on the rigtht side. I have no idea what's right or wrong but I need to find out. Right now mine just has a wire from a clip above the (control rod that opens the valve) to the spark plug. I know that can't be all of it.
Sure would like to know what it needs to make it run.
Sounds like your FM is throttle governed if it has a spark plug. My understanding is that a true hit and miss has no spark plug but is fired by an ignitor instead. My has no spark plug in the head and is missing the ignitor and mag. My is a 1916.
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Old 07-16-2007, 02:15:09 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Sawdusty, Hit and Miss refers to the method of governing the speed and has nothing to do with whether the engine has a spark plug or ignitor. My IHC M 3 hp is throttle governed with an ignitor, and I have two Stover CT2 engines, one of which is H&M and the other TG, but both have spark plugs.
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:36:30 PM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Sawdusttv,
A photo of your engine sure would help a lot! If your engine has a removeable cylinder head, it couldn't have been built in 1916. All 1 1/2 hp engines in 1916 were headless. Here's a photo of mine.
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:24:45 PM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

ksirovy,
Below is a link to a post here on the Smokstak with a picture of a 2hp H&M Dishpan engine on a oval steel sub-base. The earlier models were 1 1/2 hp and have wood skids ( I have 3 1922-1924) Fairbanks Morse also did make a high tension mag equipped hit and miss engine (Seldon seen) in the 1920's they used a Type R magneto, which was gear driven.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showth...t=miss+dishpan

Sawdusttv,
Are you sure you engine is a 1916? Fairbanks Morse did make a 1 ˝ hp "Plug Oscillator" engine which was only made for 6 months in 1919 before they switched over to the high tension AB-33 mag in mid 1919. I have never seen or heard of a 1 ˝ hp head type engine being made in 1916. Type H engines pervious to 1915 were head type (2,4 & 6 Hp) engines the 1 hp Jack-Jr. was headless.

~ Jonathan
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Old 07-17-2007, 10:06:13 PM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Without a photo, it makes things more difficult. Additionally, for any Fairbanks Morse engine, the serial number is of paramount importance to referencing information. Most of the Fairbanks Z engines have a raised "boss" on the top of the hopper that has been stamped with a serial number. A few others have it stamped in a different location, but if you look, you might find it, wherever it is.

Search this website using all the search words that you think of. Its pretty easy but there is a knack to everything, I suppose. I would hazzard to guess that there has been more info stored on-site about Fairbanks Morse engines than most other makes and it wouldn't surprise me if all your questions could be answered in that manner, but maybe not.

You'll find that one or two, or even some three letter words likely will be automatically excluded from valid search criteria but inclusion won't hamper anything and you'll get the drift. (Some of these are included by special action by Mr. Big, if it matters to ya'.)

Serial number? ......Photo?....

Without the serial number and/or a photo............
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Old 07-17-2007, 11:10:48 PM
ksirovy ksirovy is offline
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Jonathan

That's the exact link I was looking at mine looks just like that only it has dishpans for flywheels. It looks like mine never had the magneto on it and was started another way maybe with a buzz coil and battery. I really don't know I'm pretty new to this game. The good news is I bought three different ones at an auction and I have two of them running. Really thought I had 3 piles of junk. This stuff is addicting. Can these engines be started without a magneto! Maybe by using a battery box of some kind? Can I get a magneto like were talking about and what else is it going to take. Thanks for the help!
Just one more thing ya should of seen my 85 year old face when I cranked up my IH LA-priceless.
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:08:04 AM
sawdusttv sawdusttv is offline
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Guys,
First I would like to thank all of you for the replies and help.
Now, one thing you should know about me, I am as much an idiot with the digital camera as I am a novis with the hit and miss engine. But if you can be patient with me, I will try and figure out how to post a picture of the engine, I did get the serial # off the engine and matched it to a list of #'s for fairbanks engines on this site and that is how I came up with the year. The engine is at a buddies house right now so give me a day or two and I will post the serial # and pictures ( if I can figure out how)
Again thanks for the help!!
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:18:40 AM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

If you are sure it is a 1916, then it would look like the engine in Junkologist's photo. His engine may be a couple years later than 1916 or at least it appears to have the "later style" ignitor and trip rod. A 1916 would be capable of fitting out with this ignitor and trip rod however, the correct one would be slightly different and perhaps called the "early style".

On the other hand, if your engine does not look almost exactly like Junkologist's, then we go from there.

When posting a serial number, some folks won't reveal the full number but will substitute variables in place of a few numbers for an extra security measure. For example, if the engine has a serial number of 1234567, you might post 1234XXX . If the other numbers are needed, then they could be revealed privately. I guess the idea is that without the full serial, nobody can pull a flim-flam on ya'.

I didn't post a photo for a number of years but then Harry ponied up and installed some type of system that even I could use from my Flintstone 1.0 computer and O.S. First off, I tried it out on the Test Board and although I made a wrong turns, there were enough prompts to nudge me back in line and it worked!

If your engine looks like Junkologist's, you can use the "search button" on this site using the words: headless fairbanks and find many previous posts; some you can still respond to and some oldies that are "closed", allowing no further posting. You might even answer some of your questions. It can be fun!!

Once its known what exactly your engine is, then the magneto should be easy to i.d.

I have a Fairbanks headless myself and like it a lot. Fairbanks done good on that design, I.M.H.O. I can let mine sit, sit, sit and then gas it up, crank it over and off it goes. Pretty much like most of these engines, I reckon, but you do need to have a sparking system...that's for sure!
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:11:55 PM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

ksirovy,

The link I sent you is of an engine with dishpan flywheels. From what I was told when I first started collecting engines, these types of flywheels were called this because when they were laid flat they resembled dishes. These engines were sold as "competition models" sold at a lower cost than a mag equipped engine. for example a 1 1/2 hp Hit and Miss Dishpan cost $ 48.00 in 1923 and 1 1/2 hp Throttle governed "ZA" with the Bosch "AB-33" high tension mag was $74.00. These engines used a fixed needle mixer and a timer which used a battery and model T-buzz coil for spark. The spark timer off the pushrod was used to fire the correct amount of spark at the correct time. (These can be quite a pain get just right, and sometimes take quite amount of time and frustration to get it working correctly.) Over all these engines run great, and are a nice engine to have in your collection.
~ Jonathan
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:22:17 PM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidDynamo View Post
If you are sure it is a 1916, then it would look like the engine in Junkologist's photo. His engine may be a couple years later than 1916 or at least it appears to have the "later style" ignitor and trip rod. A 1916 would be capable of fitting out with this ignitor and trip rod however, the correct one would be slightly different and perhaps called the "early style".

Sawdusttv,
KidDynamo is right. My engine was built in 1917, but is the same general design as one built in 1916 would be. The earlier ignitor trip finger doesn't have the adjustable tip on the end and the ignitor is a little different too. I hope you don't have too much $ tied up in the engine already. A good ignitor and magneto could easily rack up a bill around $350. Scrounging parts can really put a strain on your wallet sometimes!
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:32:07 PM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Just ran across this photo of a 1915 FM headless for sale on Engineads. It has the early trip finger and ignitor.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:44:43 PM
Jim Tremble Jim Tremble is offline
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Widelo View Post
ksirovy,

the Bosch "AB-33" high tension mag was $74.00. ~ Jonathan
Jonathan

Do you know when FBM started and ended useing the AB-33 mags ??

I have a 1-1/2 throttler and can not read the S#.

Thanks,

Jim
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:00:05 PM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

It does make sense that it had a buzz coil hooked up-which by the way I have no idea how to hook that up, but I'm sure I'll learn. There is a wire that does lead from the back of the control rod-looks like a wire hooked to a clip-the wire leads to the spark plug which is a Champion X plug. It looks like a coil could be put on this motor- don't know if that's possible. All I know for sure is I've got to get juice to that wire somehow. Thanks for the help.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:31:12 PM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkologist View Post
Just ran across this photo of a 1915 FM headless for sale on Engineads. It has the early trip finger and ignitor.
That serial number falls into what I thought would be the early range but the ignitor isn't what I'd expect. It doesn't look like my early one with the mandatory jumper wire.

The trip rod appears to be old style though.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:10:25 AM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

Jim,
according to the Fairbanks Z Series Master Parts List book that I have the first serial number to use the AB-33 Magneto was # 386199 which would have been mid 1919 and it was used untill # 592989 (1923 or 24) I dont have my serial number list handy at this time.
~ Jonathan
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:58:00 AM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

My engine has a head, it is not headless like the picture.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:59:47 AM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

aLSO MY ENGINE HAS SPOKE FLYWHEELS NOT DISHPANS.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:58:24 AM
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Default Re: 1916 1 1\2hp z fairbanks Parts?

OK guys,

I got some pictures, now if I can only figure out how to post them.
Also I was mistaken about the serial # it is 889*** which I believe is a 1947 model, with head no sparkplug.
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