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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine


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  #1  
Old 08-16-2009, 01:19:56 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

Hi all,
I promised pics, and here they are!

First a little of what I know. This is a sad story, this nice original engine was placed outside under an eve of a building at the prarrie village for which it belongs. I'm fixing it up for them. Unfortuanely the time in the weather, being dripped on by the roof and burried in ND snow drifts, has locked he up.

First off, what do they have here? I'm not even sure what I'm looking at (I havent sat down and studied it yet, been busy with the LB
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64285

what is it? Manuals online? where to start getting it unstuck? I'll probably go fiddle with it this afternoon. (see, I'm already side tracked from the LB)

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Old 08-16-2009, 01:22:02 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

more pics...



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  #3  
Old 08-16-2009, 01:24:07 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

more pics, we like pics right?...



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  #4  
Old 08-16-2009, 01:26:13 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

One more for now.


So fellas, what is it?
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  #5  
Old 08-16-2009, 01:39:34 PM
Minnesota Will Minnesota Will is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

It's a water pump. Pretty cool.
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:42:44 PM
Minnesota Will Minnesota Will is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

Are you sure the engine is stuck and not just the pump????
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  #7  
Old 08-16-2009, 01:47:50 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

could be Will,
How can I tell whats stuck? Remember, I'm new to these old engines
All I know, is when I put the crank handle on the engine, it wont budge.
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Old 08-16-2009, 02:01:25 PM
ar2stp48 ar2stp48 is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

Nice CT-1 Stover. They are nice engines and good runners.

Look at engine, on the right side on the base about where base turns upward for hopper, there will be a raised boss with some numbers. That is the actual casting date for the base. Can run serial number and have production date of finished engine. Most likely later 20's or 30's

Very nice complete engineorig . Take that spark plug out and pour in some Marvel oil or Kroil (my choice) and let it soak. I have had good luck with a wood block turned to size of piston (want pressure on edge not center) and a big hammer. Tap on it, dont try to drive it out immediately.

I would remove the pump first and verify that the engine is what is stuck. Looking back at the pictures, I will bet the pump is what is stuck

Good luck and post your progress.
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  #9  
Old 08-16-2009, 02:27:00 PM
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JKWidener JKWidener is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

What you have there is a nice little Stover CT1 engine hooked to a nice pump. Rex made a variety of items including cement mixxers, which they also used Stover CT1 Engines in also.

Last edited by JKWidener; 08-16-2009 at 02:33:45 PM.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:09:07 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

update:
It was the engine that was stuck, not the pump. I took the bolts out holding the pump to the framework, so I could slide the pump back and disengauge the gears. The engine would not turn over. the pump would (still dont understand how the pump works, any expanations?)

It was the piston that was stuck, because there was a tiny bit of play on the crank, rod, etc... I took the top crankcase cover off to see this.

Then I took the head off the engine, and squirted down with PB Blaster. Taped around the edge of the piston lightly with a block of wood and hamer and kept spraying and taping and she freed right up! I couldn't believe it!

How do I check for spark with this kind of engine? I might just have this one running much sooner than I thought!?

Anyone have a source for pump parts? there is that rubber disk that will need to be replaced I see.

I'll see if I can find that number do date it....

back to work.
Jacob
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Old 08-16-2009, 05:10:53 PM
Minnesota Will Minnesota Will is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

"How do I check for spark with this kind of engine? I might just have this one running much sooner than I thought!? "


Take out the spark plug and lay it on the head. Hold it with a wood stick so you don't get zapped. Roll back the flywheels and look for spark.

I'm guessing you'll have it running by tonight. I'd come up and watch but you're 600 miles past the edge of the earth.
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  #12  
Old 08-16-2009, 05:19:14 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

You have a nice complete CT1 that was built in 1936. It has a WICO EK magneto which was very popular and reliable in its day. To test the spark, remove the spark plug and reconnect the wire, then lay the spark plug on top of the magneto or on a bare spot on the engine, and turn the engine over until the magneto snaps. You should see a nice blue spark when it snaps. There is a small lever on the push rod that trips the magneto. This lever controls the advance for the timing. Starting position is with the lever raised, and running position is with the lever down. There will be a line across the flywheel on the magneto side of the engine that marks when the magneto should trip with the lever in the running position. The line should be even with the valve push rod when the magneto snaps. These engines were built in both hit and miss and throttle governed styles, with most of the TG engines being set up to burn kerosene. I don't know of any on line manuals, but several sponsors on this site have the operating instructions and parts list for the Stover CT series engines. There is also a good booklet available that gives the history of the Stover Manufacturing Company. It was written by C.H. Wendel and is titled "Power in the Past, Volume 3". The records for the Stover engines from about 1903 to 1942 when they went out of business still exist, and can be researched by contacting Joe Maurer at toadhill@aeroinc.net. Most parts for the CT engines are available from Hit & Miss Enterprises.
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2009, 07:41:34 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

Enough for one day, I better quit while I'm ahead!

I found the casting numbers:

4CTI
8 7 36
made in USA

I havent got to fiddle with the magneto much yet. I was thinking this was one of those "buzz boxes" I hear about, shows what I know. I always pictured mags as the kind like on the LB and tractors etc...

I tried the sparkplug on the block and turn over thing, but I wasn't hearing a loud snap (or getting spark) like a magneto usually dose, so I fuggured there was somthing I didnt know
But it should snap huh? Maybe a linkage or something needs attention? I'll have to study it more.

Drained the oil from the block. (more water than oil in there!) Full of crud on the bottom, what do you all use to flush out the block with to get it clean. Just laquer thinner or something of that nature?

Any tricks to making sure the piston rings are free besides pulling the piston? (I'd rather not do that because I dont have a ring compressor here) Just oil around piston liberally?

I did get the gas tank off though. If this is original, its a stupid design! You cant take it off without unbolting the engine?
Does anyone have a pic of an original tank? Mine looks like it's been cobbled up in the past, and sounds like its full of crud. might have to get a new one. Are these reproduced?

And I'll have to order a manual if there is not one online.

Again, thanks for the help and words of advice!
Jacob
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2009, 08:02:43 PM
ar2stp48 ar2stp48 is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

Cast August 7, 1936

The tanks are a bit odd; and you do have to remove engine to get tank out. Tank is a basic rect box; but the fittings are the odd part. The tank was being repro'd; check some of the suppliers. Or go to a sheet metal shop and have them make one; I usually found that to be cheaper. Take them the orig tank for the fittings.

Think you have had a very good day with this engine.
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:17:34 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

Hit & Miss and Lee Pedersen both list fuel tanks for your engine, and I'm sure John Wanat has or can make a tank. All are sponsors on this site. Most tanks are a simple box shape with a 1//8" pipe drain plug on the rear, but a tank with a small round cup shaped sump was also available. The drain plug is in the bottom of the sump on those tanks. On the WICO EK mag, the armature on the bottom should snap down sharply and evenly to get the spark. There is also a set of points in the mag that might be dirty. I have seen a downloadable manual for the EK, but I don't have the reference. All parts for the EK are available, even complete new magnetos.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:18:16 AM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

You've got a winner- it's got a "job", it's on wheels, it is probably original, and may be complete.

I'd put that thing on a drip pan and give it a once over with paint thinner or kerosene and a stiff brush while laying off of any delicate details like stenciling, rubber parts, and the magneto. My objective would be to preserve original paint but get the crud off it in preparation for opening the gearcase cover and cleaning it out.

No sense grinding away with a dirty crankcase but opening it may mean you'll have to make a few gaskets....I don't know.....I don't have a Stover, but cutting gaskets is easy most of the time.

Avail yourself of the search feature on here and go to Harry's homepage for great info, too. I do a search about every time I get an engine, and then some.

By the time it is cleaned up, you'll maybe have had a chance to learn a bit about the magneto. If nothing else, find a few threads that cover clean points, cleaning the points, etc and you might get lucky and have a Wico EK mag that'll round into shape without trouble. (Or something less than that.) EK's are usually easy to fix or junk and judging from the photo, your's looks decent.

Get your gas tank ready to go and maybe your manual from a sponsor. Read a few more threads about engine starting, and Bob's yer' uncle.

Harry's homepage: http://www.old-engine.com/index.php

His (Wico EK) magneto page: http://www.old-engine.com/maghma.htm

I'd go easy on the pump. The diaphram may still be good. It probably is rubber of some kind and might be ruined by petroleum products so think dishsoap, not Gunk unless you know its okay.

The gas tank installation is more typical than not. Once it is cleaned/repaired or whatever, a little care and caution may be all it needs to last a long time so an inconvenient location ceases to be a concern.

I'd leave the adjustable stuff where it is for now until obtaining a manual and proper adjustment spec's. Searching on here for Stover will provide days of reading, some of which will actually be pertinent to your engine.

Anyway, those are my thoughts upon seeing your photos. It's all pretty fun and then you get it working........!!
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:45:04 PM
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OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

[QUOTE=ar2stp48;436740] Cast August 7, 1936 [QUOTE]

That's all that is, is the Casting date.... If it had been cast in November or December of 36, it could be a 36 or a 37 engine.... you can't always go by a casting date ! It Is Nice to know that though incase you have or should ever come accross an engine where the casting date doesn't match the year indicated by the serial number.

Some engine castings laid around for days and some for weeks or more before building. The serial number on the tag does confirm that it was built in 1936 so it didn't lay around for too many months before being machined and assembled. I heard one time many years ago that MACK would cast engines and set them out behind the building for a year or more to let them season before they machined them and put them in trucks.

Someone else already mentioned Joe Maurer, who can be contacted through here (SmokStak) or by e-mail at toadhill@aeroinc.net and have him add this one to the Stover Registry that he's working on. The Stephenson County Antique Engine Club (home of the Stover Line) has the Stover Record books, and Joe bought the shipping records on eBay a couple years ago. He's been cross referencing those records and trying to track any and all known Stover Engines which is a very time consuming process. By looking up the serial number he can tell you what day it shipped out and where it originally shipped to, which in this case is obviously to REX for use on their pumping unit. Stover shipped engines to a lot of different companies for use in their equipment and to dealerships that sold them, along with the ones that would have been shipped dirrectly to a customer when ordered by them. I have a 1925 1 1/2 hp KE and a 1915 4hp T that both shipped to Dorman & Company in Freeport (on 2-2-25 & 2-16-15), and a 1927 4hp KG that shipped to A.Y. McDonald in Dubuque Iowa (shipped on 8-10-27). Joe gave me the actual ship dates on all three of these engines, when I get time I will have to find the casting dates on them and see how close they are....

In 1936, there were 11,050 engines sold and being only 6 years from the end of production they would have been mostly the CT engines, but that would have included all of the horsepower sizes. Joe can give you more information on that subject, as he's also been writing articles on Stover in Gas Engine Magazine.
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2009, 09:54:00 PM
Jacob WI Jacob WI is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

Hi all,
Just a quick update with some good and bad news....
Good news: I emailed Joe, and he is working on finding info for me
More good news, I very briefly fiddled with the stover tonight, and for some reason appear to have spark now?! Not sure why, I didnt change anything. I did lube up the linkages directly below the mag, which trip it. and flipped that pivit arm back and forth a bunch of times to work the oil in there, mabey that did the trick?

But the bad news: While I have the head off (to get the piston unstuck) I cleaned a bunch of the crud and carbon, etc... out of the cylinder, and top of the piston, only to discover a small crack in the top of the piston
I hope I didnt cause this while freeing it up, I tryed to only tap on the edge of the piston with a chunk of wood and a carpenders hammer. And I wasn't crazy with it or anything. Are the pistons this fragel, or do you think this was a pre-existing condition?
I suppose I have to replace the piston now? any suggestons?

I guess everything cant go smoothly.... darn.
Jacob
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:07:18 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

Depending on how bad the crack is in the piston, you could get by brazing it if you or someone you know is GOOD at Brazing.

Dad had a couple old tractors that he brazed to whole top of the piston back on where it broke off, and ran them for many many years that way. I didn't know he had done that to one of them until he warned me not to run it too hard (as in a tractor pull) because a couple of the pistons had been brazed back together.

If you haven't done very much (or any) brazing, then you may not want to attempt it, as I have seen quite a few poor jobs where they just globbed a bunch of brazing rod on top and never penetrated at all.

If you're just going to run the engine for display purposes and not work it 24 hours a day, that should do it for you.
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:44:19 PM
GarysToys GarysToys is offline
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Default Re: Need help with Stover Rex hit miss engine

What about cleaning the top of the piston really well and then use JB weld to close the crack?

Some guys use it to cover the pits in the cylinder, will it work on the top of the piston.

I have one that is cracked on a FBM 3 hp and am thinking of doing this.
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