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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Catastrophic Failure


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  #1  
Old 09-09-2009, 09:33:24 PM
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Default Catastrophic Failure

A local father and 10 year son bought their first engine at the end of July. The son had saved his money & bought a hit & miss Fairbanks-Morse 2 hp dishpan. They have built a nice oak skid, changed governor springs, renewed valve springs, check valve etc. They've been getting it ready for their first show the weekend after next. Tonight they filled the grease cups & ran it for a few minutes. The cap on the non-locking rod bearing cup came loose, bounced up in the air & landed between cam gear & white metal governor bracket .... THE END for bracket although gears & all steel & iron parts survived. I offered to loan my governor assembly but it has the angle cut gears ... theirs are straight cut. My bracket is cast iron which is probably preferred.
I also offered to loan an engine for the show but the son turned me down although he said he'd help me run mine if he can't get his running. See their ad on EnginAds. HELP!!!
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  #2  
Old 09-09-2009, 09:37:14 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

That's a tough way to start out. I wish I had the parts to send to them.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:51:54 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

question did they use lock tight blue if not you might wanna teach them that secrets of safe engines. I dont wanna see that happen again with anyone. Send them my regards. Atleast we all have our cloudy days.
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  #4  
Old 09-09-2009, 10:02:03 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

eh,
Can't use Loc-Tite on the grease cup cap .... you've got to be able to turn it. Should have been a locking cap .... but OH Well .... lesson learned.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:03:18 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

oh lol i was thinking of the rod cap not the grease cup so sorry i mis read. Wow a small engine tech like me mis reading go figure.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:05:58 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

What a shame. That's the kind of thing that will make a grown man cry. That part is real hard to come by. I think Hit N Miss might have them.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:27:22 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Red face Re: Catastrophic Failure

Check with H&M. They should have the bracket and a replacement grease cup. Chances are that the grease cap was either cross threaded or not on enough to hold properly, or the threads were badly worn. When filling grease caps, they MUST be turned down so NO THREADS are showing on the grease cup base, below the cap edge (at least 3/8" of engagement). In all the 50 years of running H&M engines, I have never thrown a properly installed cap. Sorry to hear of the mishap. Hopefully replacements can be had soon.

Better that they had the zinc bracket! If they had the cast iron one, big time major damage could have been done (bent crank, broken cam and or cam gear, busted governor etc) The zinc took all the pressure and saved all else.
Andrew
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:23:50 AM
Ironman Ironman is offline
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

Hit & Miss does, indeed, have reproduction governor brackets for the 1 1/2 and 2 HP Fairbanks Z engines. A little steep at 150 bucks for the bare bracket, but the original pot metal ones had chronic problems and it's tough to find a good one...
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:31:04 AM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

If I'm replacing a grease cup for a connecting rod, if it doesn't have an internal spring, I add one.

The spring should fit snugly into the cap of the grease cup and taper so it can bear on the base of the cup. This keeps a little drag on the threads so the cap won't work loose.

Take care - Elden
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:02:13 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

Similar thing happen to me over 25 years ago with a Fairbanks Dishpan. Gear teeth marks are still on the shed wall today. Fortunately no one was struck by
flying governor pieces.
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  #11  
Old 09-10-2009, 04:34:00 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

I purchased one of those brackets from Hit and Miss a few years ago, for a project 2 HP engine. It is a very well made item, worth the money.

~ Jonathan
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:59:10 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

They will look for parts or a parts engine at Dublin .... order one from Hit & Miss on Monday A.M. if not found.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:55:47 PM
Clark Bigger Clark Bigger is offline
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

are the ones from h&m cast iron?
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:36:21 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

They are aluminum, and look exactly like the originals.
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  #15  
Old 09-10-2009, 10:54:11 PM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

I've got an aluminum repop from H&M my self. YES, a little pricey but sure as hell beats the pants off of that pot metal crap.
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:31:57 AM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elden DuRand View Post
If I'm replacing a grease cup for a connecting rod, if it doesn't have an internal spring, I add one.

The spring should fit snugly into the cap of the grease cup and taper so it can bear on the base of the cup. This keeps a little drag on the threads so the cap won't work loose.

Take care - Elden
http://www.oldengine.org/members/durand/
I don't think my engines have these springs. Where do you get them?
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:02:42 AM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

anyone have a good casting they can spare for a pattern? I can cast it no charge for the castings, this is sad, I know their feeling
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:27:36 AM
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Talking Re: Catastrophic Failure

Father & son came to Dublin, NH show last Saturday. Found no dishpan parts for sale. A few complete engines for sale between $400 & $600.
A few hours after they left I found a nearly complete(missing mag & gas tank) throttler with cast iron governor bracket & angle cut gears. I purchased it for them & delivered Sunday. The plan is to replace angle cut gears with their straight & get the hit & miss engine running for this coming weekend at the Trolley Museum. This winter they will try to find a bracket and maybe a mag & get the throttler running also.
Within minutes of delivery the son had oiled all bearings & cylinder & was starting to get decent compression with good "bounce-back".

Bad news is that they are still looking for a reasonably priced bracket .... good news is they now have two engines and are having fun!!

Last edited by Doug Kimball; 09-14-2009 at 11:20:54 AM.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:30:32 AM
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Default Re: Catastrophic Failure

Good show Doug! You really did it though - getting them a parts engine that turns into a keeper. Is there any end now?

John
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:04:07 PM
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Smile Re: Catastrophic Failure

"Is there any end now?"

John,
I hope not. They seem to be a real nice family and are having fun. They aren't afraid of getting dirty & try to do things on their own. When they run into a snag they're not afraid to ask for help and I certainly don't mind helping them.
Father & grandfather came tonight with broken white metal bracket & camshaft stuck in cam gear. Cams for hit & miss engine & throttler have different profiles so the one from damaged white metal bracket will be re-used in cast iron bracket. They had already removed camshaft from 'new' cast iron bracket & gear with little trouble using a gear puller. This one from original failure was really stuck in cam gear .... did not want to damage the gear.... gear puller unsucessful , tie rod wedge unsucessful, small amount of heat unsucessful, much heat, bucket of water, & arbor press removed it after "heat treatment" very easily without damage.
They will start reassemby tomorrow evening.
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