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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update


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  #1  
Old 09-15-2009, 11:46:30 AM
Lotstosell Lotstosell is offline
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Default 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

Hello,
I said that I would keep everyone updated on the Jaeger mixer. The engine is original to the mixer. My late Father picked this up somewhere when I was just a kid proubly over 45+ years ago. The con rod was out of the engine, and someone had adapted an eletric motor to run the flywheels to in turn run the mixer. All of the mechanical parts were in the garage in a box.
I knew my task of rebuilding it would not be easy when I seen that the con rod was brazed. (And brazing was in the threads of the grease cup). I made an engine cart. Started cleaning up the engine. Taped a new grease cup in place.
Honed the bore. Unfortunately I believe the old engine must have had a hard life. There is too much slop in the crank journal. It will need a con rod, oversized bearing, valve job, valves... etc, etc. Over $500 in parts alone. Not including any machinist work.
So it is now at the cross roads. I do not have the skills needed to repair, and rebuild it. So do I sell it? Part it out?
It has to have many good parts if I part it out. I would like to see it stay together since it is complete and original. It is a shame it had such a hard life. I have attached pictures. Jaeger mixer 1924 No. 3E Model A21H No.310951.
Thanks again, Christopher
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  #2  
Old 09-15-2009, 12:56:31 PM
DaveTexas DaveTexas is offline
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

Some engines are worth more to you than the cash value. I spent ~600 fixing up a Stover KA 2hp and proably that is about what it is worth. It was purchased by my wife's greatgrandfather.

Since this is a "family" engine I would restore it. The paint is very nice on it. Not on expert on these but I would think you could get a conrod pretty reasonable.

GO FOR IT!
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:50:59 AM
Lotstosell Lotstosell is offline
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

I understand the ideal idea of keeping material things for sentimental value. If I had keept everything I had like to have keept for sentimental reasons then there would still be a 1956 Ariel Square Four, 1939 John Deere H, Allstate motorcycle, etc, all restored and sitting here.

Unfortunately sometimes reality comes down to practicality and priorities many times in life. My Father was in declining health the last years of his life due to ALS, and as a result let things go on the house, so spending money for repairs of the house was a priority. My Dad was also a pack rat and had a three car garage full to the doors & rafters, so it has been overwhelming at times. Not to give a bad report about my Father's memory that's just the way that it was.

We are not destitute, however it isn't like we couldn't use the money for better things. My Mother only draws my Father's S.S. and $45 NCR retirement. (I am grateful for what we do have, many in the world are destitue.) So investing $600 to $1000 into a Jaeger (Hercules built) engine may not be practical. I do agree it would be sentimental though. I have always enjoyed hearing & seeing these engines run at the Fairs.

If I had more skills, and or lot's of wonderous money I would take it to a antique engine restoration person.
Then there is that old reality setting in since I don't have either. Since I don't know much about these engines, and no one I know does either. Then I must hope for the kindness of strangers for advice. I believe that I have answered my own question about the engine. It sounds like it needs to be sold to a person who has both the skills and money to restore it. I just don't know what to ask for it. Thanks for listening.

Thanks, Christopher
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2009, 11:40:09 AM
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

Lotstosell,
Looking at your picture, the engine does not seem all that bad, the parts you need may be cheaper than you think. Place a "Wanted" ad here on the classifieds and watch ebay. I found valves that fit mine from a local auto machine shop for free. The engine has sentimental value, so buy a part here and there and soon you'll have all you need, many of us have lots of spare parts laying around and like to help out another collector, so post a list of what you need on the classifieds and see what comes up. You should find a local collector to come look at what you have, they can help determine what needs to be done and what you need. Don't give up yet.
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:25:11 PM
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

Keep IT. parts are fairly easy to find. theres a swap meet coming up out my way and i can poke around there if ya need. but send me a email with the hp and i can ask around out here for ya.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:27:53 PM
Lotstosell Lotstosell is offline
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

NEW UPDATE:

I took some photo's to show how on the timing adjust trip lever is broken, and rigged. It will need to be welded, or replaced. You can also see the cuped valves, and the exhaust valve is slopy. Con rod slops on the journal. Even before I could start the piston in without a ring compressor. I also photographed the bore.

After I had photo class, I reassembled the engine just to see what it was like. Even without gaskets you might think it should show a little sign of compression. Has zero compression.

My opion is that this engine is almost a parts only engine.
It will need a con rod, oversize bearing or new crank. Valve job, and valves. Bore job, and oversize rings. New cam gear.
Etc. Around $650 in parts alone. It's getting less sentimental all the time. Especially when I don't have the skills to fix it.

A few years ago someone locally offered $250 for the engine alone. A gentleman at the Greene Co. Old Timers Fair thought that was a little low, and if the mag worked it was worth that. A gentleman just recently on the internet said he may go $300.

Are these offers a little low? I count up over $500 in good used parts on the engine. And this mixer and engine are original to each other, and have a history to Dayton. Sounds like it's a wash. Thanks, Christopher
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2009, 11:08:46 PM
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Lightbulb Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

I wouldnt part that engine out,thats a dandy in the rough Trust me,Look around and you will find cheep parts Just take your time there and you will be fine
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:40:14 AM
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

I don't understand why you need all those parts. These old engines will run with practically no compression .Cam gear looks ok in photo,also rings maybe useable.You won't have compression without gaskets.Like someone said, get someone who has engines to check it out before you decide to scrap,or order a bunch of parts for it. You would be surprised how well it may run.Don't give up yet. Dick.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:31:09 AM
CommandoTom CommandoTom is offline
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

I have a 1934 Jaeger Cement Mixer powered by a Stover CT engine. I bought it off Ebay a couple of years back. I liked the idea that the engine was already on wheels, it lived in its own little storage shed (the doghouse on the mixer) and it was already hooked up to work something. I purchased it as a none runner. As it was my first hit 'n miss I guess that was a little risky but about 6 weeks ago I finally got around to opening it up. I cleaned out the crankcase had a look at the piston and bore, checked the gears for broken or chipped teeth and put it back together. I ordered in a manual set the timing put in a new spark plug, read all the warnings about using the crank handle when starting one of these baby's up from various threads on this forum (not really any choice with the mixer set up) and cranked her over. She fired right up. Like I said I took a leap of faith when I bought it but boy did that ever feel good. Now I think I start it up at least every other day (OK sometimes twice a day) or any time I'm working in the yard. Need a new set of rims for it, the original 17" ones a pretty much rotted away and the rubber for the 17" is pretty pricey but I'm hoping to find a set of 16x5 that I can make work and it'll be off to my first show. Anyhow I guess the point of all this is, Mixer's Rock! I think everyone is right, take your time, the parts you need are out there and lots of the members here are more than willing to support you with sound advise and good leads to find the pieces you need to get your engine running. Give it little time before you make a final decision.
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:26:05 AM
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

Lotstosell,
From your pictures you need very little to get the engine running, the trip lever is easily made as is the exhaust push rod, valves that will work can be found at automotive machine shops often for free. Two horse connecting rods should be fairly common. I wouldn't worry much about your bore, mine looks 10 times worse and still runs well. My first hit and miss was also a 2 horse Jaeger and in bad shape. I stuck a photobucket link to mine, the pics with "My 1'st Hit and Miss" are the one. I still only spent $500 and you can see how many more useable parts that you have to begin with, the Mag alone was $250. I made and machined a lot of my own parts, but you don't need many parts to begin with, and don't forget that these aren't race car engines, so the parts don't have to be perfect. I would fix her up if it were mine.

Photobucket link http://s353.photobucket.com/albums/r379/wbeeman/Jaeger/
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:02:09 AM
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

If the skills & dollars are too much for you, and you don't need to maximize the cash you get out of it (the parts are nearly always worth more than the engine), advertise & sell it locally. You can probably find somone who will let you see it when it is done, and let you know if they sell it & to whom. Write up your history of it & include contact info for yourself, and ask that this stay with the engine. Most collectors (well ok me at least) like the stories behind the equipment and try to pass this sort of info along.

Like you I have inherited more stuff than I can keep, and you have to decide what is important to you from your father. If this cement mixer isn't it, try to do what you think he would have wanted done if he couldn't keep it & move on. You don't sound like you would be that interested in this project if it wasn't your father's, and that's okay.

My $0.02.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:45:57 AM
Lotstosell Lotstosell is offline
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

I really appreciate all the advice. I don't have any machanist skills, or machining equipment. I don't know anyone locally to look at the engine. If this wasn't my Dad's I wonder if it would be here at all. If my Father had purchased this new, or it was my Grandpa's it would also be a different story.

It does need a new cam gear. There is a tooth gone, and a really ruff spot on the cam lobe. Did you notice the broken off piece on the part that bolts to the push rod? And the piece of riged treaded rod that trips the mag rocker? (I don't know the tec. term of these parts.) All of the pictures I have seen of these engines it is a square piece of metal that rides in the square holder that trips the mag rocker. (Not a riged piece of threaded rod.)

Any way to make a long story short. The engine needs alot of work, I don't have the skills to make parts, I don't know any one. (I do know my budy who rebuilt his 37 Chevy truck from the ground up, however he looked and said I need to find someone who knows something about these engines.)
To rebuild it right will require a bit of money. What will I do with it when it is finished?

I know your all sentimental about the engine. They are cool to see & hear running at the fairs. Sometimes reality is what it is when reality starts setting in.

I am also asking if I sell it what to ask for it because I know nothing about these engines. I don't want to sell it to cheap to someone who is going to part it out, or sell it as scrap. That was the debate before about the mixer part. They are original to each other, and it was original to Dayton.

Thanks again, Christopher
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:10:50 AM
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

It's too far from CENTRAL PA. But I would like to help get it running.Anyone in the DAYTON area who could give a hand to LOTSTOSELL?Dick.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:31:04 AM
Kevin Pate Kevin Pate is offline
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

Christopher,

Keep pluggin away at the engine it self anf make connections with folks in your area and on here. There are enough folks on her that are willing to help out and even give some advice on how to get it back running. Do you know anyone that is friends with a good machinist or machine shop? Sometimes they will "moonlight" a project for a special favor for less than what is normally charged. You have te makings fra very good engine and it wouldprobably take LESS than what you think it will to get it running. Just remember three things:

1) PATIENCE!!!!! Don't know how many times I have to drill this into people.

2) Creatvity. If you can't buy it for some reason or another, build it or have it built by someone who can or think outside the existing box on what might work in its place.

3)Ask questions. Advice is always free. People are willing to lend a hand. Get to know folks who restore and collect and they can tell you the ins and outs and where to ACTUALLY spend money at.

Bad part is when I got my first engine (International LA) I spent more money than what its worth to get it running (butr not good) and after 10 years I officially got it to run right this week (played with it the past two nights out in the shop. I could sell it but won't get the money back, however, it's sentimental to me because it was my first engine.

Kevin
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:24:55 PM
Lotstosell Lotstosell is offline
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

I had a post thought after my last post. If I follow what my Father's wish's would have been then all of everything would still be here. It really was overwhelming.

I understand everyone's sentimentalism over this engine. Sounds like everyone out there is more sentimental over the engine than I am. I also have to be practical and realistic also about it.

A side thought: I like the push rod system the way it looks on the old horizontal IHC & Associated engines. To me it looks like the push rod mag trip set-up on the Hercules/Jaeger is kind of difficult engineering.

I wonder if for me if it wouldn't be better to trade in or up the whole mixer & engine on an already restored running engine.
In other words take the $500 I would spend on the Jaeger and put it with the mixer & engine as trade in on another easier less complecated engine already running?

Even if I did have a running engine on the engine cart what will I do with it? Only the romatic sounds of Shhhous Bang Click Click Shhhous Bang Click Click. I do admit they are really neat! There are lots of engines that play beautiful tunes. ie John Deere, H D, radial aircraft engines, etc, etc.

However I can't keep it for that reason alone, or that it was something my Father picked up somewhere. I can go to the Fairs & Shows, and listen to them run there. Thanks again,
Christopher
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:19:57 PM
Lotstosell Lotstosell is offline
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Default Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

Just also had another thought. I always admired and really liked the old Ford 8N tractors. And that would be an old toy that could still be practical. Put a mower deck on the back to the PTO and cut grass. Just some thoughts. Thanks
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:34:53 PM
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Lightbulb Re: 1924 No.3E Jaeger Mixer update

My buddys Jeager has 7 teeth missing and broke and it runs like a top
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