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Henry Ford Help and Advice


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  #1  
Old 02-06-2010, 09:22:26 AM
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GeneratorGus GeneratorGus is offline
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Photo Henry Ford Help and Advice

This is my first IC engine project, 1/2 scale Henry Ford. Started messing around with it (sans plans) about a year ago and finally fired it up about two months ago. First on gasoline, then on Coleman fuel. Seems to always want to flood on either, but way less on the Coleman. It will start and run, farting and popping all the time, but after a couple minutes floods and dies no matter if I try to lean it out. It will restart on accumulated fuel with the needle valve closed and the run for a while after the needle is open but soon floods again.

I’m at a point where I think it needs an actual mixer and as I already dropped Ford’s water stop exhaust valve design for a more reliable valve cage scheme of my own, and also rigged a more controllable ignition contact, I’m figuring it can be called the New and Improved version.
I would like to keep the oiler fuel tank with some sort of vaporizer somewhere between the fuel tank and check valve(which also may be replaced by my valve cage rig) I’ve tried a few different things, including a crude venturi just below the sight hole on the oiler.

You guys helped me out quite a bit when it came to the piston and ring question I posted. I chose the no rings method and it worked out fine. So once again I’m looking for advice and brain food from the panel, all suggestions are greatly appreciated.

By the way, the best run was about 15 minutes before it stalled when a piece of turkish towel rag I was trying for a vaporizer got lodged in the elbow and eventually got sucked thru and partially spit out the exhaust. Intersting that before the rag got sucked thru, the engine smoothed out and revved to what I'm thinking was a bit too fast. Do you suppose a smaller intake is in order?

GUS
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:34:31 AM
Ironsides Ironsides is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Gus,I can't help you with mixture problems other than to say that the piece of towelling going through leaned her down so you are on the right track---as we all know they speed up when leaned down.I admire what you have done and wish I had the ability to do the same.Keep cranking,Norm
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  #3  
Old 02-06-2010, 01:48:13 PM
ghart3 ghart3 is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Gus, built same engine only a little smaller scale. Had problem with it getting flooded out and very hard to start after that. Problem was, there was a small pocket in bottom of cylinder and raw fuel would collect there. Eliminating the area for liquid fuel to collect and making small hole in elbow below where fuel drips from carburator also helped. This extra hole allows a little more air for the mixture and a place for raw fuel to drain out. Is your fuel dripping on a screen and then the air passing thru this screen? gary
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:58:18 AM
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Hi Gary, I'm not at all sure how the original Ford engine was built, on my first try at the cylinder assy., I only ran the cyl. in to meet the the nipples for the valving, this this would create a pocket in ahead of the cylinder and piston, that attempt got nothing. Second try I bored the 1/2" tee straight thru, then drilled clearance holes in the sides and top, the nipples and spark plug are tapped directly into the cylinder tube. I then made an alum. breech plug with an o-ring that seals the cylinder beyond the nipples. The brass tee is basically just a mounting block to hold the cylinder assy. in place. There is no pocket, I think the fuel can be collecting in the fittings on the way to the cylinder. There is quite a bit of room in there.
I've tried quite a few different ways to try to vaporize the fuel better, my first tries were a fine screen in the site glass hole of the oiler, then tries with various porous materials, no help. nothing I put in the sight glass hole worked. I started trying the same tactics in the elbow and that's when the engine first ran. I found that a piece of very loose woven towel/rag worked best, and after the engine swallowed a piece I put the fine screen to keep the rag in the elbow. I'll try drilling a hole in the elbow, it makes sence.
What scale did you make your engine, and what did you use for valves? For me the most difficult part of building mine was getting the valves to work. I'd like to see your engine, post a picture if you can.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:22:08 AM
Ronald E. McClellan Ronald E. McClellan is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Gus; I built a full size engine from Leon's plans. It runs great. However you can't run it very long because it has no cooling system. Running for more than 5 minutes and it would be smoking. I can't see how you could get a towel into the cylinder. The fuel drips onto two layers of fine screen then through a hole .100" diameter. Yes the air and fuel go through this .100" hole. That is what vaporizes the fuel. Do you have the oiler site glass removed for the air intake? The plug in the end of the "T" has the hollow space filled to increase compresson. The bottom of the "T" that goes to the flange is sealed. When I start my engine I put about 6 drips of fuel then turn it off then start the engine then adjust the drip. Ron
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:49:59 PM
ghart3 ghart3 is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Gus, not sure what scale mine is. The pipe tee is half inch.
Glad to hear you have no pockets in bottom of your cylinder.
Both valves started life as globe valves. The intake valve is something like a poppet valve with the stem sticking upward and the tapered seat is on the bottom. Gravity holds it closed. The exhaust has stem on both sides of the valve.

It don't take much of any leakage at one of the valves to cause problems. Make an adapter that you can put low air pressure in the cylinder at the spark plug hole. Listen at the intake, exhaust and bottom of cylinder for air leaking out.

The cylinder bore is a polished surface and am using an O-ring on the piston. Will run all day, 8 hours or more, without having a heating problem. Only time it gets too hot is when outside on a hot sunny day.
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  #7  
Old 02-07-2010, 03:17:02 PM
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OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

The screen mentioned in a couple of the posts, Atomizes the fuel, (not vaporize).... The finer the screen mesh, the better the atomization as the piston sucks in the air/fuel mixture. If you want to see what that looks like, just take an air hose and blow it through the screen door sometime when it's raining and look at the fine fog cloud on the other side.

Raw fuel only burns the outside layer of each drop of fuel. Vaporization , through heat, turns it into an explosive gaseous mixture, Atomization breaks up the drops of fuel into smaller and smaller droplets of fuel giving more surface area to burn for better and more compleat combustion.

Fuel will give off vapors at room temp or warmer outside temperatures until all of the aromatics have dissipated from it which is why they have different blends of gas for summer and winter, but they will pretty much all burn well when atomized whether from going through a screen or a well designed venturi, even after the aromatics are depleted.

I've run my cars, trucks, tractors, and hit & miss engines on 5-10-20+ year old gas some of which you could barely get to light throwing matches into a puddle of it, but on an engine like an Olds or Massey Harris Type 1 or others with the long updraft carbs, they basically run on the fumes or vapors instead of raw fuel, so I use fresh gas in those.

In home built engines based on as simple (& crude) design as Fords first engine I would be a little leary of allowing too many vapors to accumulate around it from fresh gasoline standing in the drip oiler and dripping through it, (especially if using a Buzz Coil for ignition as they tend to spark themselves along with the spark plug), but once most of the vapors are gone, if you use the finest screen you can get to put in under the drip oiler sightglass and maybe add another piece of it in the plumbing leading to the cylinder to help break it up even finer it should give good results.

It might help too, to modify the needle on the drip oiler with a more gradual taper allowing for finer adjustments to help cut down on the flooding problem.
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  #8  
Old 02-08-2010, 02:31:44 PM
Kevin Pate Kevin Pate is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Does anyone have any upclose photos the their intake/ exhaust valves?? Trying to build mine and confused on one part....
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Old 02-08-2010, 05:00:21 PM
ghart3 ghart3 is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Exhaust valve - started as 1/8 inch globe valve.




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Old 02-08-2010, 05:10:04 PM
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Intake Valve also started life as same 1/8 globe valve as exhaust valve.




Notice flat filed on valve stem. This is to allow air to go by the stem so vacuum won't slow falling of valve.



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Old 02-08-2010, 05:21:07 PM
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Fuel tank and drip control. Fine thread (80 t.p.i.) for adjusting fuel drip. For this engine one drop every 4 seconds works good. Fine screen mesh filter for fuel outlet.

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Old 02-10-2010, 08:15:46 AM
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies. I have to, admit at this point, I should have dropped a dime for Leon’s plans, my plans came from looking at the article in GEM magazine, looked like any fool could whip it up in a couple hours, turns out I got fooled. All my efforts to build the exhaust valve failed. I built it the same way Gary did (4 tries), but I couldn’t get the hole in the bottom of the valve to line up with the valve stem, and when I made it into a clearance hole the valve would not seal when turned horizontally. By the time I got to the last try I was so frustrated I gave it a good whack with an adjustable wrench and also put a dent in the cylinder, boy, I fixed it real good. The piston wouldn’t go thru the cylinder.
It was 9 months later that I remorsed and picked up my broken little engine and started over. This time I built the valve from a 1/8 tee with a valve cage insert, worked like a charm, then built the new cylinder assy. as I described earlier. I reused old my check ball intake valve. I think this is part of the reason the engine misses because the ball is probably bouncing around, I tried putting a light spring on top of it but when I did the engine wouldn’t run. I like Gary’s gravity valve and I’m going to give that a try. I think a flapper type check would have worked very well, but when I received the 1/8 valve I ordered from MSC, I was disappointed to find a ½” size valve with 1/8” holes tapped in it. The engine looked like a big old lobster with a monster claw.
I built the oiler/fuel tank from scratch, no sight glass, the needle has a fine taper and controls the fuel drip very good. Ron, if I had Leon’s plans I would have known about the intake restriction hole, which seems to explain why the engine runs to rich, I probably would also have known how the get the exhaust bored properly. Gary, I tried putting a hole in the bottom of the intake elbow, nothing changed. Did you put the intake restrictor in your’s?
I’m going to try the restrictor and also build a new intake valve. Thank you all for the advise and help.
GUS
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:12:00 AM
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Gus, didn't use a restrictor on the intake. The elbow does narrow down a fair amount on mine. I did start with Leon's plans but worked mostly with stuff from the junk box. Leon's plan are good and would recommend them. To be honest had forgot there being restrictor on the plans. Nice thing about the restrictor is that it might act as a dam for liquid fuel that flows down. Picture on mine shows a drain cock, but I leave it open. A larger adjustable opening for drain might be nice. Amount of air being drawn in could be changed and lean down the mixture if needed. Gary
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Old 02-21-2010, 01:12:54 AM
Jim K Jim K is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

This looks like an interesting engine.Could someone please tell me where I can get a copy of Leon's plans for this engine?
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:55:08 AM
Ronald E. McClellan Ronald E. McClellan is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Leon has drawings and kits to build the engine. It's a lot easier to build with the kit. Leon Ridenour 865-584-9759 here is a picture of my engine. Ron If my pictures don't show you can find more pictures on this thread - Henry Ford's first gas engine(replica)
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Old 03-14-2010, 06:32:47 PM
Flyingfarm Flyingfarm is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Here is a picture of the two Ford Engines I built. Sold one. They both run great. I have built a third one that is half size of the first ones. Just getting it running.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:52:18 PM
D Davis D Davis is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

Ronald what all is included in Leons kit ? Thank You for any replys.
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:23:51 AM
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

The Kit comes with a piston ring and an atomizing screen.There's a basic set of drawings and a DVD that gives a pretty good step by step overview of building the engine
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:57:25 AM
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Brian.P Brian.P is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

you get a great DVD
it's worth the 43 bucks just for that

i think i got the screns but i may have asked for them
he gives drawings i found a little hard to read but with the step by step DVD you can't go wrong

it shows set ups and he is a phone call away for any help
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:20:27 AM
Ronald E. McClellan Ronald E. McClellan is offline
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Default Re: Henry Ford Help and Advice

D.Davis; It's been a long time but I rember getting the piston, rings, honed cylinder, con rod, gears, (maybe bronz bushings-not sure). Ron
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