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Antique Marine Engines and Outboard Motors Discussion on old marine engines, naptha, gas, oil or steam and vintage outboard motors.

Antique Marine Engines and Outboard Motors

Detroit Engine Works 2hp?


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  #1  
Old 02-18-2019, 11:51:43 PM
Goldstar Goldstar is offline
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Default Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Have just acquired this engine and starting to learn about it. Everything is free , has a Krice Carb not pictured which seems complete and serviceable. I am curious as to how to date the engine , if someone can help ? The compression is good. Of most concern so far is the water pump plunger which is somewhat oval and I think it may be missing a section that would have had some time of packing to provide a seal , if anyone could help with information I would be grateful . Since it is so oval and worn I am thinking I could turn it down and insert a brass sleeve into the bore of the pump housing as the interior of the bore is also in poor condition and getting a good seal will be difficult . I was wondering if anyone has done anything similar ? Also I am missing the gland packing that is clamped around the plunger to provide a seal to the outside , does anyone have information as to what this looked like or how best to make one ? any help or advice gratefully received , Martin
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:24:11 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is online now
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Exclamation Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp ?

Detroit Marine engines were sold many ways. Bare engine (you put on your own carb or mixer, with a Kingston 3 ball brass carb, with a Lunkenheimer mixer and with the low pressure fuel injector. Quite a selection and fuel milage will vary! As far as I know, there is no dating system for them. They were produced about 1902 to the mid teens as far as I know. They were also sold under other brands as well If you check out the Davis Family Engine Website, there is a lot of data on the Detroit Engine Works engines there. Not sure if he has any sources for marine parts, but it can't hurt to ask. I wrote an article for The Gas Engine Magazine about a 2 HP Detroit Marine engine - 'The As Is Engine' Oct/Nov 1997 issue. You can contact GEM for a back issue or rad it on line at their website.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:36:29 PM
Fred Prichard Fred Prichard is offline
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp ?

I just happen to have a couple of these Detroit's stored in my basement, one with a 12" wheel, the other is 14" diameter. Your missing packing gland looks like this. Made of cast iron. Fred
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:52:07 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp ?

Andrew, thank you for your information i was not aware of the Davis website and will learn a lot I am sure , the story from GEM is very informative and gives me a lot more information to chew on, much appreciated Martin

---------- Post added at 08:52:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34:24 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Prichard View Post
I just happen to have a couple of these Detroit's stored in my basement, one with a 12" wheel, the other is 14" diameter. Your missing packing gland looks like this. Made of cast iron. Fred
Fred , this is exactly what I have got so that great news , so I do not have anything missing from the plunger , it is just worn and I do have the packing gland . I still can't figure out though what forms the seal(the packing) between the plunger and the housing to stop water coming out, sorry if i am sounding ignorant just not familiar with this arrangement , many thanks
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:18:52 PM
Fred Prichard Fred Prichard is offline
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp ?

Graphite rope packing is what I use but just about any kind of round or square packing that will fit in the opening will work even around your worn piston. Fred
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:37:37 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp ?

Fred , thank you I will research the packing once I have measured it up, mis appreciated ,Martin
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:55:53 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Hi Martin, Nice looking Detroit. Is it tagged with a Detroit Engine Works name plate? As already stated there is not any information from the factory to date the Detroit engines. Detroit Engine Works marine engines were first advertised around the 1906 time period. The early model DEW marine engines manufactured (1906-1909) had only a 1" National pipe thread plug & hole in the crankcase for inspection purposes and the two engine mounting flanges on the side of the crankcase were only as wide as the crankcase. Later model DEW marine engines manufactured (1910-1920) have a larger 3" square or round inspection plate with 4 small holes for bolts. Also the engine mounting flanges on the side of the crankcase are wider. So your engine was manufactured sometime between 1910-1920. Your water pump is probably not as bad as you would think as it does not work exactly like a piston in a engine so it does not have to be a close fit because it is simply displacing the water and if a little water goes by the piston it will still pump water. The seal is going to be created with the packing and the tapered sleeve. You can use the graphite rope as already stated or use round Teflon for packing for sealing the piston. I have replaced a few of the brass pistons but never had to do any work on the bore in the cast iron water pump. If you have a good round piston then the packing will seal good. The bore is not that critical in the water pump. There should be two check valves on your water pump. One above the piston & bore where the hex head is and another brass horizontal check valve in line with the water inlet thread hole. In your photo you are also missing a cylinder drip oiler. Should be a drip oiler that has a check ball below the drip view glass and a vent tube in the upper oil reservoir. One last thing, the serial number for your engine should be stamped into the outer diameter of the flywheel. Email or PM me if I can help you with any other questions.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:18:18 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

John I very much appreciate your information , I realize I was a little ignorant when asking my question about the water pump cylinder bore bit now understand its a displacement pump. As the weather warms up i shall be getting into the workshop and having a good look at the engine and am sure I will have more questions. Will also provide the serial number Many thanks Martin
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:28:07 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

A good plumbing store (not a box store like loews or home despot), should have graphite impregnated cotton packing, It is used on a lot of things like valve stems and pump seals. As John stated,Teflon will work too but is not as gorgiving on used out of round surfaces.
Andrew
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:58:50 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

What size is the shaft you need the packing gland for? I may have one that will work if the size is correct. All I'd charge is shipping, and a smile. I'll check the size tomorrow and get a pic or 2.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:55:28 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Well that would be extremely welcome, the nominal size is 3/4 and the most consistant size approx 11/16,as it is fairly oval through wear , that would really make me smile , thank you very much , if you could let me know payment details via PM I will take care of it , assuming you have something of similar size , again thank you very much for your offer, Martin
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:09:36 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Upon checking, The one I have is for a 1-1/4 shaft. Dang. A bit to large for you.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:45:07 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Not a problem , I thank you for looking
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Old 03-29-2019, 08:39:51 AM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Is you engine tagged with a DEW tag? and have you figured out what hp it is?
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Old 04-03-2019, 10:10:23 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Yes it has a brass Detroit engine works tag,(you can see it on one of the photos I have posted if thats the one you are referring to . I was unable so far to find a serial number on the flywheel but will have another look.Other than taking it apart is there any way to determine the hp? Thanks Martin
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Old 04-06-2019, 06:41:29 PM
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Arrow Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Martin, Write down all the embossed (Raised) casting numbers & letters from each part on your engine and PM the info to me or post them here and I can tell you what hp your Detroit is. Another thing that will help to determine the hp is to measure the diameter of the flywheel and figure out the stroke of your engine. To get the stroke you will need a long rod like a wood dowel or steel rod. Remove the spark plug place the rod down into the cylinder until it is setting on top of the piston. Turn the flywheel and find the highest and lowest position of the piston marking a line on the rod at the very top of the cylinder head for each position. Take the rod out and measure between the two lines you marked on the rod and this is the stroke distance of your engine.

Make sure what ever you use for a rod is plenty long enough so that you do not drop it into the cylinder and can not get it out. Causing you to dissemble the engine.
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:42:37 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

John , the flywheel; is 14 1/4 in diameter and the stroke is 3 1/2 , castings numbers are as follows , Expansion chamber 5BC2, Cylinder head what looks like ICI, crankcase 108 and the water pump 10A.BC I hope this helps, many thanks Martin
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Old 04-17-2019, 06:55:42 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Martin, Your engine is a 4hp and could have come from the factory for marine use or stationary use. If it was originally sold as a stationary engine then it is missing it's original skids, pulley & outboard bearing, muffler, etc... I have seen the stationary units with a marine or stationary tag on the engine.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:02:19 PM
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Default Re: Detroit Engine Works 2hp?

Thank you John , i wondered why it seemed heavier than the 2 hp model I thought it was, have been working on getting the electrical timing parts cleaned and working , will next tackle the water pump and the carburettor . I do have a question , what is the tapped hole to the right and above the orifice for the carburettor used for , what am I missing ? (can be seen in the third picture), also do I need a priming cup ?Martin
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:33:12 AM
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Sorry for the slow reply, guess I missed your post some how. On the later model Detroit marine engines like yours and the photo below the cylinder was cast and machined so that they could be adapted for use with three different types of fuel metering devices such as a Carb, Mixer or fuel injector. Most of the mixers & carbs would thread into the larger hole on the cylinder where your carb is mounted and the smaller hole on the upper right would get a threaded plug. If the engine had fuel injection system then the injector would thread into the smaller thread on the upper right and the larger threaded hole would get a threaded plug. The threaded hole on the upper left on your engine that has a elbow in it is for a drip oiler. Your engine had two single drip oilers rather then the single oiler with two drip lines. The one taper top drip oiler you have is original. Now you just need to find another just like it to attach to the cylinder. Your engine having a carburetor probably would not need a primer cup. The valve on your engine is probably original from the factory. If you need to prime the engine just put your palm over the intake and rock the flywheel back and forth a few times against compression.

Your engine has a lot of the original paint on it. Are you planning on painting it? Shiny engines are nice but I like the old antique look. Would look great if you washed it down with a brush and some diesel fuel. That is what I did to the little Detroit below.



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Last edited by John Davis; 06-15-2019 at 08:58:12 AM.
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