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Oil Field Engines & Related Equipment

My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...


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  #21  
Old 02-27-2013, 08:28:42 PM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

Well men,
I was making good time getting home in this O'l big truck and trailer till I hit a pot hole here on 459 on the east side of Birmingham. The steering wheel dang near jerked my right thumb off, and blowed the power steering line between the pump and the steering box, so here I sit broke down, but I do have a road service in route.

When I get home I will go over everyone's thoughts on this engine. To answer your question Andrew, it goes just kinda mush over to a stop after hitting the first time, and sometimes it will go on past TDC, and yes I am using SAE 30 oil, I'll be sure to change that first thing, I sure appreciate everyone's input.

Jim
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:06:57 AM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

Finally got rested up from my trip from hell, so I got to tinker with the Bessemer for just a little while as it got dark. I switched over to 50 weight oil for the cylinder, and got a longer 3" nipple for the air intake and choked it down with a makeshift choke, it does seem to have better force now when it fires, and is actually going on through the next compression stroke before stopping.I also adjusted the spring on the mixer valve...(not original spring)...I can push the valve up with 1 finger with what feels like around 4lbs pressure. I took a few pics tonight, don't know if they will help, but figured seeing makes it nicer sometimes. I have the hot tube around cherry red, which is an original 6" tube loaned to me by R.Finley,..Thanks Robert... My accumulater is 4" by 52" feeding into all 1" piping to the mixer valve. the pic of the fuel tanks shows the regulators, the 1 on the right is a grill regulator at 11" WC feeding the accumulater tank. I did'nt have the proper fitting to hook it up to a 20 lb bottle as suggested in an earlier post, but will try that tomorrow.
Thanks again for your thoughts / comments.

Jim
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:42:16 AM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

Morning Everyone,

I got up early and thought I might tinker with O'l Bessy today, I have been rereading through these post and paying close attention to detail (trying to learn), in one of the post it is mentioned of putting a guage on fuel system to see if it loses to much pressure between intake strokes, the post says look for around 2-3 lbs of pressure and that really got me to thinking.....my regulator clearly states that it produces only 1/2 lb pressure at 11 WC, is it possible I need to get more pressure to it? Think I'll go down to Setzer's camping today and see what I can find, or maybe Queen's Hardware.


Jim
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:36:04 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

do not put 2 lbs of pressure on it. do not. you are using the correct pressure for the engine. also, the 100 lb tank is always better than the 20 lb tank. like i stated before, after it hits and if it doesn't hit again, immediatly turn the gas off at the diamond valve and bump it back and forth several more times. it if hits again, it was flooded. if it doesn't hit again, it was leaned out. if you put 2 lbs on the mixer, it will not run correctly. if it was flooded, turn the gas valve down just a small amount and try again. if it was lean, try more choke on the air intake. how tight are the bearings. does it roll over easily with the compression release open? sometime tight bearings and packing glands will not let them come back over and hit again. try starting it with the hot tube just red at bottom and continue trying to start it as the hot tube gets hotter to find the sweet spot that this engine likes. they are all different. you might have to move the piston back away from the head a little more. the top of piston should be flush with the inspection port wall. just make sure the piston is not bottoming out and hitting on the rear of the cylinder. if the engine is too rich, you can also tighten up the valve spring to make the valve a little harder to open. there are many ways to control the fuel in these engines, and you will need to find what works best for you. on another note, i have several big engines that will run on a regulater that will not start other engines. you might have to change around your grill regulater with another one to see what happens. hang in there. what i have found is that an engine that is getting a little too much fuel at start up is usually a little softer on the initial hit and hits harder when lean. you just have to find the sweet spot

Last edited by Rod Fielder; 03-07-2013 at 12:47:47 PM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:20:17 PM
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Exclamation Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

Jim, my bad on the pressure post - pressure was supposed to read about 1/2 pound. I had to leave the computer, and did not get to proof read my reply before posting. Sorry. 2 PSI probably will over pressure the inlet valve, lifting it off its seat - a dangerous condition. As an added note to Rod's suggestions, I would suggest that you either increase pressure on or replace the intake spring with a stronger one. It takes quite a bit of pressure on our OCSP engine, to open the inlet valve. The original valve itself was supposed to weigh about 41/2 pounds. The machinist who made it thought it would be too heavy, and lightenned it by nearly a full pound - making it too light to seat properly - it chattered and allowed too much gas escape. The spring tension was increased to compensate for the machining mistake.
Andrew
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  #26  
Old 03-07-2013, 05:06:41 PM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

Andrew, we are only human and things like that happen, no need for apology. I have been outside messing with it, and hav gotten it to fire over some but mostly by turning it over with my Massey, with the left rear jacked up and trans in 2nd or 3rd I can slowly make adjustments to see what makes it act the best. I started out with a positive mind, first thing I did was check / readjust the piston at BDC, aligned the piston 100% from sight not the mark on the rod showing 12 o'clock position, I aligned the eyebrows evenly on each side, with maybe at the most 1/16" or so piston showing in the ports. I oiled everything up since the rain had hit it, and after the hotube warmed up I went at it. I slowly turned the diamond valve (with tractor spinning the engine) until I got a decent report from the exhaust, I made multiple adjustments on the fuel valve spring and noticed it did help a little to tighten it up, and if I adjusted the hotube to hot, well it would started bogging the tractor down as though it was firing early so I adjusted my tin can wrapper on the burner to cool the hotube a little and got the speed back up and then adjusted the diamond valve slowly to see what helped and what did'nt, If I give it to much fuel and it slowed down. It never did really seem to have a lot of power, and I say that because I would kick the tractor in neautral and the engine would just slow down to the point it would fire and roll backwards even though the tractor was still trying to keep it going the other way. I'm starting to wonder if maybe it does'nt have as much compression as I think it does, maybe it needs rings...? But anyway, the only guidance I really have is here on Smokstak, and I truly Thank each and everyone that has helped on trying to get this engine up and going again.


Jim
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:18:28 PM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

Is your tube gunked up inside?...
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:29:54 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

If you spin the flywheels by hand do they bounce back good or do they kind of just come to a slow stop? If they don't bounce back then maybe the compression is low. Are the bearings nice and loose?
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  #29  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:57:49 AM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

Morning,

I only looked at the threaded end of the hotube to see if it was open, I will check closer and make sure it is clean. When I try to start the engine by hand it will go on through to the next compression stroke and roll to a stop after the piston starts back down, It seems the more I fool with it the better it gets, but as I noticed yesterday while it was spinning on the tractor at times it would really crack through the exhaust and belch a little blue smoke but most of the time just sounded like a deep thud from the exhaust, and of course if I turned the diamond valve up to much (in slow increments) it would start bogging the tractor down as though it was firing way to early. I have have tried to rock it back and forth against it's own compression and not had any real success with it trying to fire off. I mostly have to open the comp release, spin it over by hand about 2-3 revolutions, stop with piston at BDC, close comp release valve, and then roll it backwards as hard as I can and it will fire most every time that way and roll through the next comp stroke and finally stop with the piston going back down. But if I don't roll it over a couple times like that it does'nt seem to want to fire any other way by hand... .I can roll it up toward comp and if I really stand in the spokes the piston will eventually go through the comp stroke then start back down, but it's not what I consider easy to get the piston back down either, it feels like it has a lot of suction on the top of the piston at that point. When I put the piston back in this engine the ring gap varied on each ring from about 1/16 to 1/8 but that was looking at them from a visible point of view, not back in the cylinder where I'm sure there is some wear. I cleaned the piston up good as I could, made sure the piston rings where loose and oiled and worked it back in with help from the crane and a cloth choker.

Jim
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  #30  
Old 03-08-2013, 06:27:35 PM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

Jim,

Just as SOON as she fires close the intake air almost off.( I hope this makes sense.)
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:49:12 PM
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Exclamation Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

If the engine does NOT bounce back on the last compression stroke, then compression is definately an issue. the engine should not carry over and stop on the down stroke, it should bounce back. If the engine carrys over TDC, compressed fuel/air in the cylinder should have enough pressure retained to turn the crank to BDC and up against the next compression stroke. it should bounce back, sometimes in both directions, it it does not have enough inertia to carry over TDC.

1) check the ring gap - make sure it is not excessive.
2) Check ring tension - it should be fairly hard to collapse the rings to fit the cylinder. 3) make sure the rings fit snugly in the piston ring grooves.
Andrew
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:45:22 PM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

jim is your rear packing on the rod leaking
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  #33  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:08:17 PM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

Jim,

Read throught the post on my 10 HP Bessemer. Sounds like you are having some of the same situation I had. I choked the air intake down from 2" to 1 1/4". I was attempting to start mine with the tube way too hot. Mine wiil ONLY start with a very little to almost no red showing on the bottom of the tube!!! Follow Rod's recipe of closing the throttle valve and kicking it a few times to see if the mixture was too rich or too lean, it worked for mine!

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92982
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:16:01 AM
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Default Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

looking at your pictures... is there anything inside that old governor housing that could be shutting the gas off or choking it down???? just a thought as to those are designed to shut down the engine if the belt was to break, maybe someone at some point forgot to take the guts out of the governor housing???? i normally bypass the governor for running, but i belt it up to watch the motion.. but mines just there for looks...

---------- Post added at 12:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 AM ----------

what is the valve under the diamond valve?? does it do anything?? usually it goes from the diamond valve strait to the intake... or jiggly valve as we call it around here....
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:18:20 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: My Bessemer is in need of an Exorcism...

In your post, #29, I have a few questions: Are there 2 rings per ring groove? Does the piston normally come this far out of the cylinder (3rd picture from left)? When compressed, do the rings come near to the bottom of the groove, or are they a distance from being bottommed? On the piston, do you have the ring ends lined up?

Normally, the rings should be nearly as thick as the groove is deep, no more than about .20 from being bottommed. On oilfield engines, usually only 1 ring per groove. Installed, end gap should be between 4 to 5 thousandths per inch of diameter of the bore. A 10 inch bore ring should have .040" to .050" end gap. If 2 rings per groove, the rings should be 180 degrees apart, never aligned. The piston rod packing should be tight enough to seal, but not be clamped tight enough to stop piston movement. You should be able to move the piston in and out of the cylinder, by hand - not on the crank. personally, I would pull the piston and check ring fit to cylinder. the rings should take a bit of effort to collapse and fit in the cylinder - they should not just rattle around in the bore.
Andrew
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