Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Antique Gas Engine Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z


this thread has 28 replies and has been viewed 5864 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:52:54 PM
J.Bubba Lee J.Bubba Lee is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gallatin, TN USA
Posts: 17
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Where should the ignition timing be set? I can get my engine to fire, about 5-7 degrees after TDC, but it does not have enough power to complete the next compression stroke. Butter fly is wide open, getting plenty of gas, check valve is OK. If I set the timing just a little before 90 degrees after TDC, it will run real slow about 3 rev's and then quit, butterfly wide open. Exaust valve is timed with crank. Help appreciated.

James Lee - TN
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:32:06 PM
David M. Lyon's Avatar
David M. Lyon David M. Lyon is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hattiesburg, Mississippi, USA
Posts: 3,214
Thanks: 518
Thanked 2,253 Times in 1,163 Posts
Images: 32
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

If your Magneto has an impulse, (and it is in working order!) set it to trip the impulse just at top dead center. It will automaticaly advance the timing once the engine starts.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to David M. Lyon For This Post:
  #3  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:35:01 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 2,133
Thanks: 3,826
Thanked 4,670 Times in 1,186 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Timing should be at least 0 to 10 degrees before top dead center for running slow. If running under load at rated speed timing should be about 20 to 30 degrees BTC.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:42:42 PM
Jeff Miley Jeff Miley is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hebron, Maryland USA
Posts: 397
Thanks: 27
Thanked 225 Times in 125 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

I know you said it is getting plenty of gas but have you checked the checkball in the fuel line? If this is not working well the engine will fire on priming fuel but not draw any additional fuel in to run. Just a thought.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:38:53 PM
Martin Gaudet Martin Gaudet is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bainsville, Ontario
Posts: 309
Thanks: 165
Thanked 296 Times in 118 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Are the valves working OK?
If the intake is leaking or if the spring is not set right, it will do funny things.
Just a thought...
Martin
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-21-2012, 11:15:30 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rockaway, New Jersey USA
Posts: 13,891
Thanks: 1,966
Thanked 6,479 Times in 4,186 Posts
Exclamation Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Initial timing should be no later than TDC, otherwise you won't develop enough power to carry over, as you already see.
Andrew
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-21-2012, 01:21:57 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
Posts: 3,309
Thanks: 8,444
Thanked 1,391 Times in 944 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

What yr. engine? Spark plug or ignitor? Bob
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-21-2012, 03:20:27 PM
J.Bubba Lee J.Bubba Lee is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gallatin, TN USA
Posts: 17
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Check valve is OK, I am using a coil and set of points, good fire at plug. I have pulled it through real slow and when it fires I can hear the explosion, but I can hold the fly wheel to keep it from turning. I have done this while looking at the head, I see no blow by through the valves.

James Lee - TN

---------- Post added at 02:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

P.S. I can see just a little smoke come past the rings, thought this was normal on cold engine, will advance the timing and see what happens.Thanks everybody.

James Lee - TN
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-21-2012, 03:43:24 PM
David M. Lyon's Avatar
David M. Lyon David M. Lyon is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hattiesburg, Mississippi, USA
Posts: 3,214
Thanks: 518
Thanked 2,253 Times in 1,163 Posts
Images: 32
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Since you don't have an impulse, set the points to fire the coil at 8 to10 degrees BEFORE top dead center, Hold the intake valve open with your left hand to relieve compression, spin the engine over with your right hand until you get it spinning as fast as you can, and then release the intake valve and simultaneously remove the crank handle. The flywheels will carry it through the next cycle and it should take off on the next go 'round. ...Don't try it without holding open the intake, or it'll kick back. That big six horse Fairbanks Morse is strong and it will hurt you!
As always. Be careful with that crank handle!!! don't let it slap you in the jaw!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-22-2012, 11:07:01 AM
J.Bubba Lee J.Bubba Lee is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gallatin, TN USA
Posts: 17
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

I don't have a crank handle, read here that you could get in a fight with one of them and they would win, knocked out teeth, broken bones, etc, how ever, I will see if I can find one. I have just been grabbing the spokes of the wheel and spinning it that way.

It is a 1921 model. Thanks again. Any ideals on where to look for handle?

James Lee - TN
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-22-2012, 12:34:54 PM
David M. Lyon's Avatar
David M. Lyon David M. Lyon is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hattiesburg, Mississippi, USA
Posts: 3,214
Thanks: 518
Thanked 2,253 Times in 1,163 Posts
Images: 32
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Honestly, I wouldn't bother looking for one. I never use any of mine anyway. If you can get someone to help you, get behind the engine and pull the flywheels toward you from the back while someone holds the intake open. Or confiscate an electric motor and belt to spin it over while you make adjustments to get the right combination for it to run. Once you find the sweet spots, it'll crank much easier!~
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-22-2012, 02:28:30 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
Posts: 3,309
Thanks: 8,444
Thanked 1,391 Times in 944 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

What kind of coil are you using? Bob
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-23-2012, 12:10:44 PM
J.Bubba Lee J.Bubba Lee is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gallatin, TN USA
Posts: 17
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Accel Super Coil, lites up that plug like a light bulb, home made set of points, piece of stainless steel rubbing on a stud that is on the cam wheel. I found a crank on E-Bay, made a bid on it, have not advanced timing yet, but will let you know what happens, thanks to everyone.

James Lee - TN

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

I saw a vid of an older gentlemen turn the wheel just before he knew it would fire and just barely turned it a little more, with ease it looked like, and it started right up and ran.

James Lee - TN
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:03:02 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
Posts: 3,309
Thanks: 8,444
Thanked 1,391 Times in 944 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Be interesting if that would work. You really need a buzz coil. Bob
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-24-2012, 02:05:31 PM
J.Bubba Lee J.Bubba Lee is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gallatin, TN USA
Posts: 17
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Got is to run pretty fast for about 10 seconds and then it just stopped. This is no joke, my right hand is swelled and sore from pulling on those spokes so much, blisters on fingers also. I lost my job after 30 years, that is why I was using parts I all ready had. Bob, thanks for the info on the buzz coil, how would that make it better?

James Lee - TN
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-24-2012, 03:28:14 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
Posts: 3,309
Thanks: 8,444
Thanked 1,391 Times in 944 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

A buzz coil makes multiple sparks while the car coil only makes one. Eldon or one of the other guys can explain it better then me. Bob
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-26-2012, 02:02:44 PM
J.Bubba Lee J.Bubba Lee is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gallatin, TN USA
Posts: 17
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

Forgive me, but I am new to this. All it takes is a spark to ignite. How can multiple or longer lasting sparks improve the situation. When I hold my hand over the air intake, it gets wet with gas, so I know it is getting gas. It will run 6 to 8 revs and then quit. Been watching vids all morning where just one pull of the wheel gets it going and running. How do they do it? Thanks to everyone for their help. If it takes a buzz coil to make it better, I will surely get one. I am not going to use it for anything, just want to sit back and listen to it run, music to my ears.

James Lee - TN
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-26-2012, 03:09:40 PM
David M. Lyon's Avatar
David M. Lyon David M. Lyon is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hattiesburg, Mississippi, USA
Posts: 3,214
Thanks: 518
Thanked 2,253 Times in 1,163 Posts
Images: 32
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

I would never grab the spokes to turn that six horse over. Just grab the flywheel rim to spin it, so your fingers won't get tangled up in the spokes. It sounds like the engine is losing spark after it gains a little RPM. What are you using to trigger the coil? how are your 'points' set up? ...Photos might help us help you!~
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:43:36 AM
J.Bubba Lee J.Bubba Lee is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gallatin, TN USA
Posts: 17
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

This is the way I have it set up. Works pretty good for 6 to 8 revs.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P6260017.jpg
Views:	117
Size:	89.1 KB
ID:	138561  
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-27-2012, 11:07:28 AM
David M. Lyon's Avatar
David M. Lyon David M. Lyon is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hattiesburg, Mississippi, USA
Posts: 3,214
Thanks: 518
Thanked 2,253 Times in 1,163 Posts
Images: 32
Default Re: Fairbanks-Morse 6 HP Z

I guess if you tinker with that setup enough, you could get it to run. A buzz coil set-up will give better starting and running results. The buzz coil contact will be different from your breaker point set-up. With a buzz coil, the contacts actually complete the circuit to provide current to the coil to fire rather than the points breaking to fire the automotive coil.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Gas cap for 6hp Fairbanks Morse kevincw Antique Gas Engine Discussion 2 07-06-2011 07:15:17 AM
FB/Morse-Need a Part- Morse Fairbanks Ser# 833745-1942? Babbit? LShap1777 Antique Gas Engine Discussion 4 09-12-2008 11:03:58 AM
Fairbanks Morse Billy Boone Antique Engine Archives 1 06-29-2004 09:13:37 PM
Fairbanks Morse Billy Boone Antique Engine Archives 0 06-29-2004 08:20:22 PM
Fairbanks Morse what????? chase Antique Engine Archives 11 02-10-2002 07:26:36 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:16:31 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277