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Ruston & Hornsby CR


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  #1  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:29:08 AM
rustongreen rustongreen is offline
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Default Ruston & Hornsby CR

I'm working on a Ruston CR for a guy and I took the pump and injector to a diesel shop to get cleaned and set up again. The problem is that nobody has ever seen a Ruston injection pump before and nobody can test them out. I have 4 spare pumps but each one the fuel injection plunger ( top plunger) the seat is poor and when I try to pressure the pump up it just dumps the fuel out the return port and nothing goes to the injector. Where can I send pumps to get rebuilt or am I just dreaming here.
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:22:10 AM
Combustor Combustor is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Hello Rustongreen,
I know nothing about a Ruston CR, but if the pump is similar to the Ruston pump on my 3VQ, then the problem may be with the spill valve(s) which are separate from the pump plunger and are controlled by an eccentric shaft from the governor. The spill valves are under square head plugs adjacent to the head of the pump plunger. If you think your setup is similar then let me know and I will try to recall the crude method I employed to restore seats on the spill valves which had suffered some pitting from corrosion in long term storage.
There may be wiser heads than mine on site who can give more professional advice, but if all else fails, come back here or feel free to send a PM or email on the subject. Regards,
Combustor.
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:45:45 AM
Dustin D Ehli Dustin D Ehli is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Yes make sure the spill valve is seating properly and also make sure both check balls are In good shape and seating also, there is one down in the suction line fitting in the bottom, and one in the fitting for the high pressure line on top.
If all is seating well the only place the fuel can go is leak out around the plunger
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:11:52 AM
Foseng Foseng is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

If you go to the Internal Fire Museum website (www.internalfire.com) it would be a good idea to join the forum. The guys on it have a lot of knowledge of UK engines and also the museum incredible selection of online manuals.

Dave
Laoag City
Philippines
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  #5  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:29:40 PM
Jake65mm Jake65mm is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

I rebuilt mine in house, and bench tested it with a new lister injector. I polished the pump barrels, replaced the lower and upper check balls and recut the seats. If you interested I can help you out just shoot me a PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2017, 12:40:25 AM
rustongreen rustongreen is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

I do have a running Ruston and I am aware of the check balls. Once the upper ball wouldn't seat and there was just a small piece of fuzz under it so I just let fuel run out until it was gone. Like I said in my original post I have 4 spare injection pumps and they all have too much fuel returning through the return port. When I try to pressure the system up with the pump shut off lever the injector never cracks the bursting pressure, it just dumps the fuel over the return seat. So what I am asking how do I grind the valve or the seat? I will find a pic to show or take a pump apart.
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Old 04-02-2017, 08:48:03 AM
Oil Power Oil Power is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

I have not worked on this particular type of Ruston pump but think your CR may be similar to the HR type illustrated below. if the fuel is being dumped out the return the first question is does the spill valve have sufficient clearance, or could it be opening too soon? If this clearance is correct I would look for the cause of the leakage. An easy way might be to remove the connecting pipes and the delivery valve ball. Then pressurize the pump with an air hose. The point of leakage will most likely show up by escaping air bubbles. The air pressure is not critical, 10 psi would probably suffice and the air hose need only be held in position by hand with a rubber seal. The ball valve seats can be lapped by using a spare ball of the correct size, attached to a handle such as a piece of doweling or copper tubing. A very fine paste should be used. Fore more information on the HR pump send me a PM as I have a manual courtesy of the Internal Fire Museum.
Hugh
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  #8  
Old 04-02-2017, 09:01:14 AM
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Contaucreek Contaucreek is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

The HR style engines designated as CR (17hp) and CY (20hp) were particular to the Canadian grain elevator market. You were correct in your assumption.
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Old 04-02-2017, 09:30:13 AM
rustongreen rustongreen is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

In the bottom of the bed plate it is a 3XHR. It is not opening too soon. When I swing the fuel handle to charge the system, it lets out most of the fuel over the return if not all the fuel. Now if I plug the return port it will build pressure, so that would tell me that the seat is poor or the valve is poor. What do I use to grind it so it holds pressure?
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Old 04-02-2017, 12:35:43 PM
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Do you have your engine in the proper priming position to fire the injector with the fuel hand lever?
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Old 04-02-2017, 04:12:41 PM
rustongreen rustongreen is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Yes, but I have more than one pump that is in need of work like this. The only way the pump makes pressure is when the return port is plugged
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:52:42 PM
rustongreen rustongreen is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Does anybody have the gauge that is used for the incline shoe for the HR'sor at least have a dimension for it?
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Old 04-05-2017, 06:39:42 AM
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

I believe setting guages were particular to each individual engine.
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Old 04-06-2017, 03:42:40 PM
rustongreen rustongreen is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Oh that's handy yup, ok well at least I took measurements before I tore the government apart. I thot that when the service mechanic came to do work that maybe he had such a gauge tool.
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Old 04-06-2017, 04:57:49 PM
haywaj haywaj is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Lap the ball valve seat with valve lapping compound. You can most likely use a fixed angle taper on the end of a drill rod as a lapping tool. Lap several times with fresh compound, making sure to clean out the residue completely when you are done. You may want to use a new ball if yours is pitted.
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:08:10 AM
rustongreen rustongreen is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

So if the ball seats are good and the pump still has a hard time making pressure, what should be the next plan of attack be? Now if you read posts 1,6 and 9 I never made mention that the ball seats are bad just that the spill valve seat pushes a lot of fuel out while I'm swinging the pump plunger. That is what I want to know, what is the best way to grind that seat or that valve?
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:36:46 AM
Combustor Combustor is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Hi again Rustongreen,
My VQB pump is a rather different animal, but still seems to use the spill valve principle to control it. Found my engine after prolonged weather exposure and the seats of spill valves had some rust pitting and leaked badly. Figuring I had nothing to lose, I removed valve seats and stems for inspection. As the corrosion was around the top face of the angled (45*?) seat I held it true in a lathe and used a toolpost grinder to take a cut across the flat face to narrow the seat and remove most of the corroded surface.
The seating face on the valve stem was slightly pitted and had a small wear groove so it was mounted true in a collet and several grades of fine diamond sticks were applied by hand to the rotating valve until it cleaned up. Was lucky enough to have the Ruston injector recon kit from the 1930's and used the fine crocus paste and jewellers rouge to lap the parts together till close inspection showed full seat contact. When assembled and calibrated the engine soon settled down to run extremely well, and 15 years on it is still a favorite. Sorry if detail is a bit sketchy, but this was a while back, and I feel Alzheimers approaching sometimes.Regards,
Combustor.
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Old 04-08-2017, 04:35:52 PM
rustongreen rustongreen is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Thank you for that, I do have a pump at a diesel shop hoping that they are able to do something like you said but when the shop has never seen one before EVER and they want to learn so if someone else comes in they will have a clue what to do. I think I may have to make a test bench do these myself.
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Old 04-09-2017, 03:47:08 AM
Combustor Combustor is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Hello Rustongreen,
Hope you can find means of salvaging a pump and running the old gal once more. Believe there are custom diesel shops who can do almost anything at a price, but have not tracked them down myself.
Forum member "Oil Power" (post #7) is a Diesel technician from 'way back, and if he has any further wisdom on this subject I would be guided by him. My approach was experimental and more than a bit "lucky" I guess. Will watch from the sidelines as I am well out of my depth here. Good luck,
Combustor.
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Old 04-10-2017, 12:13:58 AM
rustongreen rustongreen is offline
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Default Re: Ruston & Hornsby CR

Oil power had sent me some pages of Ruston pumps which I sent to the diesel shop where I have my pump and injector sitting and they were very grateful for that info. I may have to tinker around on a pump myself to see if I can rebuild it too. What I need to make is the test bench for the pump just to see if the spill valve leaks or not when pressured up.
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