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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator


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  #1  
Old 01-12-2006, 07:25:41 PM
Shootist357 Shootist357 is offline
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Photo Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

I have a Wisconsin TH with an Ensign B regulator and carb attached. I cleaned and rebuilt the regulator, and it starts fine and runs fine...HOWEVER..I have to have the engine choked all the time or it will stall out. Also, the motor is running WAY to fast. I am getting 170 volts from a 115 head. I have the governor in the bottom hole which is as slow as it is supposed to go 1775 RPM. It is running much faster than that, and I can't figure out why. The governor/throttle adjustment is set up properly. I have no idea how to adjust the fuel setup. There are only 2 adjustments on the fuel setup. one is the needle jet on top of the regulator, and the other is a jet on the bottom of the carb. There is also a hollow plug with a locknut on the bottom left of the carb. The motor speeds up the longer I let it run also. I am feeding it with a 20lb BBQ tank and BBQ regulator. I put the regulator back together for testing without any gasket sealer, so I may be getting some leaks around the regulator. Can anyone provide me with some tuning help/description of jets/or anything else?
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2006, 10:39:39 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

The demand regulator you have can be feed tank pressure. You do not need a 11 inch water colume regulator in front of this demand regulator like a Garretson KN. It is hard to tell from the picture but the screw on top is idle mixture I think. The screw on the bottom or on the right side of the picture would be you high speed mixture. As to your speed control problem, do you have a spring on the govener that you can reduce it's tention to reduce the engines RPM? Are you sure the govener is not seized some way. The weights may be hung-up inside the engine.

Kent
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Old 01-13-2006, 02:50:28 PM
Shootist357 Shootist357 is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

The regulator is stamped inlet pressure 4-8 oz. That is why I have the BBQ reg feeding it. As far as the governor goes; I have the spring attached in the proper location, and it is set for the least amount of tension(lowest speed). I'm not sure why it is running so fast. I need to get an inductive tach to check it out. I only run it for a few seconds since I have no idea how fast it is running. I really appreciate all the help you have provided me. Between the two of us, this thing may actually run perfectly. Shootist
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Old 01-13-2006, 09:18:05 PM
Shootist357 Shootist357 is offline
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Talking Re: Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

Ever have one of those moments...After thinking about my problem all day and not coming up with any answers, I stood there before dinner staring at the engine. I reached down and pulled off the air intake tube and realized that when I thought I was at full choke I was actually wide open! Yea, I'm losing it. I'll give her a shot this weekend and see what I come up with. Shootist
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Old 01-14-2006, 01:48:06 PM
Shootist357 Shootist357 is offline
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Photo Re: Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

Well, it runs fine as far as I can tell. I have no idea if the mixture is right, or how to adjust it, but it starts easy and runs smooth. The only problem is controlling the load vs no load speed. With it running @ 115 volts/57.3 hz and a 11.73 amp 1,375 watt load, it runs fine. As soon as I remove the load the voltage/speed jumps up to 178 volts. That is a lot of change for a 1375 watt load on a 5000w genset. I've included some better photos of my setup. There are two adjustments on the carb; the bottom one must be the mixture jet (doesn't seem to do much) the hex adjustment on the left is a hollow plug and seems to work as an rpm/load adjuster. It makes a tremendous amount of change in engine speed with a little turn. The thumbscrew on top of the regulator...I have no idea what it does. I know there has to be an ensign expert somewhere on the forum...Shootist
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Old 01-15-2006, 10:46:48 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootist357
.......It makes a tremendous amount of change in engine speed with a little turn. The thumbscrew on top of the regulator...I have no idea what it does. I know there has to be an ensign expert somewhere on the forum...Shootist
I'm not an expert on your plant but you've got governor problems. Were it mine, I'd take the governor off and check it out.

Take care - Elden
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Old 01-15-2006, 01:00:30 PM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

57.3 hz means you are running slow, too. Get the thing running at 60 hz and see it the governor controls it any better when it is at proper speed. If you're too slow to begin with, maybe the governor can't do its job.

You may eventually need the speed to be a tad higher at no load so it will run at 60 hz with a load. I don't like that concept but maybe on small gensets, this might be the case.

Eldon has a point, though. You might want to take a peek at the governor guts to make sure it isn't worn out or gnarled up somehow.
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Old 01-15-2006, 06:49:07 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootist357
The regulator is stamped inlet pressure 4-8 oz. That is why I have the BBQ reg feeding it. As far as the governor goes; I have the spring attached in the proper location, and it is set for the least amount of tension(lowest speed). I'm not sure why it is running so fast. I need to get an inductive tach to check it out. I only run it for a few seconds since I have no idea how fast it is running. I really appreciate all the help you have provided me. Between the two of us, this thing may actually run perfectly. Shootist
Shootist,
I think what you think is a stamping of an inlet pressure of 4 to 8 oz. may be the listing of the water capacity of the demand regulator. An demand regulator which has fittings and a water jacket to run engine coolent through the regulator is designed for a fuel input of LIQUID propane at TANK pressure. I DO NOT have an M-5 regulator to look at but I do have an M-6. You will sometimes here the regulator refered to as a vaporize as this is what happen on a larger engine. The liquid LPG vaporizes in the regulator. When the fuel vaporizes there is the need of heat. This heat is supplied by the engines coolent. If the regulator/vaporizer is not heated it will freeze up and the engine will stop. You would not have this problem as with an engine this small you could feed the regulator/vaporize with tank pressure vapor. I am just trying to free up your BBQ regulator so you could us ir on some other project. This is why I like call these units regulator/vaporizers.
With what you have posted, I will try my M-6 on my THD power welder I want to fuel with LPG. I have a source of junk 70's era school buses that may have more regulator/vaporizers on them. This is where I got the M-6 I have. Thanks for the information.

Kent
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:50:30 PM
Shootist357 Shootist357 is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

I really trust all of your opinions, or else I wouldn't be posting. I'm going to get it up to 60hz as you suggested, and take it from there. The only reference material I have is my TH book, so I'll peruse it once again this coming weekend. Hopefully your guys suggestions will pay off. Thanks for the inputs, and keep em coming !!! Shootist
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Old 01-21-2006, 01:30:32 PM
Shootist357 Shootist357 is offline
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Smile Re: Wisconsin TH with Ensign propane regulator

Well, she's still running smoothly...I have it set up to run at 65Hz no load (1950 rpm), and when I apply a load it drops to 53 Hz (1590 rpm). I'm not sure how to overcome this. I'm sitting on the idle stop screw at no load, and just kissing it under load. Maybe I need to go up a notch on the governor. I think a TH engine would produce enough HP/torque to not be loaded down. Maybe I need a higher volume fuel flow. I've played with every adjusment and have it running the best I can. I think I'll try removing the BBQ regulator and running straight tank pressure into the Ensign regulator. I also thought about putting a 100w stabilizing load on the output for my no-load rpm. Thanks to all those who replied. Shootist
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