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Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs Discussion about magnetos, buzz coils, spark plugs, ignitors and low tension coils.

Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs

Economy F, Mag Question

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Old 07-13-2018, 05:08:52 PM
dgibbs dgibbs is offline
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Default Economy F, Mag Question

I have a magneto/ignitor issue I hope someone here can help with…
I recently acquired a 2 ˝ hp Economy model “F” with the Webster Type 2C mag.
The problem is that the mag is very flaky and inconsistent in its operation . When checked with a neon test light, it glows very weakly when it fires, sometimes not at all.
When turning the engine against compression, I get hissing and blow-by around the ignitor shaft and out the oil cap for the shaft.
I’m guessing that besides the ignitor bushings being worn, the magnet is probably weak and that there might be a timing issue as to when the points open /close when it fires.
It looks like it operates fine though.
I checked them with a meter and they do close and make contact electrically, maybe just not at the exact moment they should.. not sure.
So my question is.. do I get this rebuilt, assuming it needs it, or is there a way to retro-fit a different model Webster mag / ignitor assembly to it without a lot of modifications. Something more reliable and common.
I would like to keep this as original as possible, but I don’t want to deal with a cranky unreliable magneto that no one seems to know much about and parts are not too common. Plus, I can’t find much info on this model either.
Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:58:10 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: Economy F, Mag question

The magneto is low tension so you are lucky to get any glow from a neon test light, they are made for high tension ignitions. The best way to test the ignition is with the mag and igniter on the bench. The points need to be opened when the armature is horizontal to get the most voltage and best spark. There are reprint Webster instruction books available.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:06:44 PM
gasenginerick gasenginerick is offline
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Default Re: Economy F, Mag question

You could retro fit it with the Wico sytem or older style Webster mag and bracket, but if you don't already own one of these mags; a good one not just another one out of the flea market that the guy told you was good and proper bracket your still going to have a troublesome engine and now it's not correct. I have a 1921 Economy F with the new style Webster on it I sent it and the igniter to Mark's Magneto it came back in perfect shape and I never had an issue. Sometimes spending some money on a mag is sure worth it when you see exhibitors struggling to start and keep engines running with a worn out ignition system Just my 2 cents
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:52:50 PM
dgibbs dgibbs is offline
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Default Re: Economy F, Mag question

Thanks for the advice guys. I know the low tension systems don't make much of a spark, or make a neon bulb glow much, but I think there's more to it than that as sometimes it acts like it's dead or shorted.
I think I will look into getting a rebuild/ repair at worse case, as I want to keep this correct.
Until then, I may look for a manual to see if it's something I can fix or adjust myself.
There doesn't seem to be much on the internet though on this model mag compared with other Webster models .
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:00:25 PM
stillstandin stillstandin is offline
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Default Re: Economy F, Mag question

if you can wiggle the shafts up and down get it rebuilt. had mine bushes redone and I think it cost me about a hundred and a half . the engine started really hard , well worth your money, just sayin'
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:23:58 PM
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Jeff and Maria Smith Jeff and Maria Smith is offline
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Default Re: Economy F, Mag Question

The model F is not as common as several other Hercules engines. It was only made from mid to late1921, up until the Wick EK came out in 1923. Probably a little less, or right at 2 years. If you modify it, you don't truly have a model F.

I have a 9hp model F that still isn't done. I hunted REAL hard for all the correct parts to put it back original !
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:38:41 PM
dgibbs dgibbs is offline
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Default Re: Economy F, Mag Question

Thank you everyone for your input and advice. After thinking about this some more, If I can't get it repaired myself, I am going to send it out for a tune-up/ repair to a good mag repair shop.
I want to keep this a model F, and if I modify it and swap out the mag, it's not so much a model F anymore as some have said.
I did have some time to look at the problem a little more, and I did notice that if I keep the intake valve open / no compression while turning the flywheels, it will spark. If the valve is closed and I turn the flywheels over against compression, it wont fire. Not sure if it's the pressure from the blow by around the shaft, or something else. Going to tinker with it a little more and see if I can figure it out first.
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Old 08-27-2018, 04:09:37 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Economy F, Mag Question

If you are getting blow by out the igniter shaft and the oiling port, it's time to get the igniter rebuilt. It should not leak! Also, if it is worn that badly, it (the shaft) will also move around in the bore, throwing timing off by a large margin - a NO-NO for igniter fired engines. Remember - igniter engines, electrically simple, mechanically complicated. for an igniter system to work properly, it must be 'just so'. Minimal wear on moving componants, and proper adjustments and timing.
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Old 11-17-2018, 07:01:28 AM
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Bruce Golden Bruce Golden is offline
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Default Re: Economy F, Mag Question

Not to high jack this post but I thought it would be a good place to ask a question about the Model F I'm working on. I found 2 mag brackets, one is a P-10, other is a P-22, which one is correct for my 1 1/2hp Economy? Thanks in advance!! Here is a pic of mine so far.
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