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Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines Fairbanks Morse, Lister, Petter, Witte and other pump injected Diesel oil engines.

Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines

Hatz E780 injection pump trouble + oil sputtering


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  #1  
Old 02-07-2016, 01:45:40 PM
Pixel123 Pixel123 is offline
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Default Hatz E780 injection pump trouble + oil sputtering

Hello all,

I've bought myself an GEHO dewatering pump with a Diesel & Electric motor. The Diesel motor is a Hatz E780. When I opened up the casing I noticed the injection pump was not fixed in the opening so I tightened the bolts. Hereafter I did the necessary service stuff, cleaned the oil bath filter and put a few cm's new oil in it, and also put new oil in the motor. I filled it up until the max on the dipstick. Also the diesel line valve and filter where clogged so I cleaned the tank and put a new line valve and new filter. I bleeded the Diesel system up to the injection pump. After the injection pump the trouble starts. At first I was not able to get any Diesel out of it. I unmounted it and tried to understand its operation. There's a plunger which passes the Diesel fuel after the certain spring pressure is reached. After a few tries (also loosening the pressure side with the spring a bit) I was able to get some Diesel drops out. So I cranked it up and she worked perfectly. So I tried to let it run for an hour, but after a while it failed. Also not able to start it again, I guess there is again the Diesel problem not getting injected through the pump? It seems that the injection pump is not always able to build enough pressure to push the spring. Any suggestions what to do or where to find a new pump?

A second problem is the oil sputtering through the hole I annotated on the attachment using the red circle. The red rectangle is the injection pump. I filled motor oil up until max, but at every compression/decompression, it is sputtering oil through this hole. Should I place a cap on this?

Thanks already !
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  #2  
Old 02-07-2016, 02:31:31 PM
Roland Hayes Roland Hayes is offline
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Default Re: Hatz E780 injection pump trouble + oil sputtering

What you are describing sounds like a valve called the 'fuel delivery valve' that mounts in the top of the pump above the pumping element. The function of this valve is to act as a one way valve so that compressed fuel under very high pressure is retained in the injector pipe and the delivery side of the injector, the injection pump will not function if the valve does not completely prevent all and any back flow of fuel that would cause a loss of fuel pressure in the pipe.
Make sure that the fitting that retains the delivery valve in the pump body is tight as if it is even slightly loose high pressure fuel can escape through the face joint between the delivery valve base and the top of the pumping element.
If it is tight you'd better go through the fuel system again as there might be another restriction somewhere.
Did you remove the injection pump from the engine?
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Old 02-07-2016, 05:45:25 PM
Pixel123 Pixel123 is offline
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Default Re: Hatz E780 injection pump trouble + oil sputtering

Hi Roland,

Thank you for your reply:

Yes I took the pump out of the engine and opened up the fuel delivery valve. It is like this one:

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86730

However the 2-stepped cylinder part next to the copper ring from the right does not seem to be in there. Maybe the pump type in this topic is incorrect or somebody opened it before and did not mount it correctly again and this is causing the pressure loss? The ID on my pump is bosch: 0414171068.

I'll check if I can find some info about the valve seperately.

Any ideas about the sputtering oil?
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:00:10 PM
Roland Hayes Roland Hayes is offline
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Default Re: Hatz E780 injection pump trouble + oil sputtering

That's the upper spring seat, it must have dropped out and you missed it, you need that part in there or the delivery valve spring won't have any tension on the valve plunger and it won't function as a valve. Its not a particularly unique or accurately made part, you could take one from another pump or even make it, the bigger diameter end has a slot across the end face so that fuel can get through.
Sorry, can't help with your sputtering..
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:12:29 PM
Pixel123 Pixel123 is offline
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Default Re: Hatz E780 injection pump trouble + oil sputtering

Ok thank you for your reply! I will see what I can do.
For the sputtering, is it ok to put a cap on it?
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:31:35 PM
Roland Hayes Roland Hayes is offline
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Default Re: Hatz E780 injection pump trouble + oil sputtering

If there is no significant pressure I guess it would be ok to cap the leak
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:31:01 PM
Pixel123 Pixel123 is offline
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Default Re: Hatz E780 injection pump trouble + oil sputtering

To try to fix it, I bought a new injection pump, I couldn't get the old one going. So today the new one arrived and I've put it in, but when I rotated it without compression to see the new pump output I was amazed that this pump also did not output a single drop of Diesel. After putting back in the old one, I finally figured it out .

The injection pumps have a fuel delivery valve which is the simple spring like valve. As the new pump was empty, there was only air in the pump and no way for the air to get out. As air can be compressed, all the plunger did was compress the air, this force must be weaker than the spring force so the valve is shut. By loosening the valve allowing Diesel to get into the plunjer chamber and air out, it functions! Seems like there was nothing wrong with the old pump.

NEW PROBLEM: To figure out why there wasn't coming any fuel out of the new pump, I've opened up the timing cover. Now I have a hard time putting it back together. As the big gear with the camshaft on came out togheter with the cover I wasn't able to mark the position in relation with the crankshaft small gear. Hower I noticed that on the camshaft gear there is a "0" mark, and on the crankshaft gear there is "1" mark. So I put the valve pusher camshaft back in the position with "0" and "1" aligned. But the motor does not run as nicely as before. I guess there is something wrong with the timing. I wasn't able to find much information about this, do you guys know this kind of stuff? I couldn't find any other markings on the gears.

Thanks in advance!!
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:23:51 PM
Pixel123 Pixel123 is offline
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Default Re: Hatz E780 injection pump trouble + oil sputtering

EDIT: The "0" and "1" are the alignment marks after all! It seems that I didn't bleed the diesel circuit enough and that caused the motor to not sound like it should. It is very important to also bleed the fuel pump itself by loosening the output valve and giving it a crank until drops start to come out, else it will only compress air and will not deliver any fuel. So I hope this reply is usefull for somebody sometime. Thanks all
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